What rifle for first time owner

thanks for the responses guys. I replied with this to a user that PM'd me but the following applies to this thread as well:
I am definitely gonna do more research before buying, but I think you guys convinced me that a .22 is a must. After doing a little more looking, it seems that if I buy used, I should not have a problem buying both a decent ar-15 and a decent 22. Can you recommend brands that are good and make this possible? Im guessing used i can eventually find the guns 25% lower then then..? Can I buy a good scope, and use it on both the 22 and the ar15. If Im shooting very close the the 22, then I can just use the iron sights that come with it instead of the scope then right? Thanks again.
 
Yes, a decent AR-15 and good .22 can be had for under $1,000.

However, for marksmanship training and deer hunting, I would recommend a good .22 and a bolt or lever-action rifle in .30-30, .270win, .308, or .30-06. Unfortunately, .223 is on the VERY low end for taking deer. Many states do not allow deer hunting with .223 rifles.

For .22s, I am a big fan of the Ruger 10/22. It is accurate, fairly simple, and almost endlessly modifiable.
 
There are lots of used rifles out there.
Just haunt your local gun shops till you find something you like.

Iron sights on both the .22 and the AR is probably a better idea to start with. Add a scope to the AR later. You can shoot a very long way with iron sights. People shoot out to 1000yds without scopes.

There are scopes that will work on both the AR and a .22. The problem is that a scope intended for a centerfire might not focus well at ranges under 50yds and a scope intended for a rimfire might not hold up to being shaken by centerfire rounds.

Quite a few used guns will have a scope on them. Unless it's a very good scope, they don't add much to the price of a used rifle as compared to a new one.

The main thing is to have fun.
 
Sounds liek you are leanging towards an AR style rifle?
I'll still say that a good bolt action rifle would be perfect to get started out on.
The aforementioned tips to get TWO rifles, one in .22 and one larger centerfire, are good advice.
Pick up a nice little .22LR rifle.
Spend the remainder on one of the more reputable "affordable" rifles. I've heard nothing but good about the Marlin XS7/XL7 series for well under $400.
.243 is a perfect caliber to start out with. It's very light on recoil and can easily handle everything from varmint to deer.
Add an affordable scope in the $150 range and you're all set.

If bolt action is not your gig, I bet there are a bazillion people (like me) who took their first deer with a .30-30 lever action gun, such as the Winchester model 94.
 
multi purpose rifle

The black rifle in 223 can do many things. If the 223 cartridge is legal for deer in your state, it is also a deer rifle. Just select the right factory load.
 
Hey, and welcome. First, you will probably need to take an approved Hunter Education course before purchasing a hunting license. Check with your state regulations. Even if it's not required, it's a very good idea--if just for safety's sake. I also agree that $1K would buy a great little .22 of your choice, plus a nice .243 bolt action that will both be easy on your shoulder, your wallet, and still kill more deer than you can aim at. After getting the basics down, you have plenty of other options to move into different kinds of actions and larger calibers. Seek out friendly advice at your local gun shops and range, and ask plenty of questions. Many may let you handle some guns to get the "feel" of things. Good luck, and good shootin'.;)

-7-
 
I would suggest you buy a middle grade 22 rifle first and learn to shoot it. The skills are transferable to centerfire rifles. I would suggest you look at a Savage Mark II or CZ 452/453.

Centerfire rifles.... I know it sounds great to bang away with surplus ammo in 5.56 or 7.62, but this ammo is generally not that accurate. You're just shooting. Yeah, you can learn the basics, but you will do better with better ammunition in general. Hence the cost issue and we're back to 22LR first.

The 243 is the lowest powered centerfire rifle that I will recommend for deer hunting. Yeah, you can kill a deer with 223, but you have to be a good shot and know when to take a shot and when to wait or pass based on the caliber. It's simpler with a larger caliber. But the larger caliber has more recoil and hence is probably more unpleasant to just target shoot with.

You can buy an AR styled rifle to hunt with. No question about it and they are available in calibers larger or more powerful than 223 (5.56) or 7.62. If that is the way you want to go, then good luck. I think you are better served with a bolt action rifle chambered in 270 > 308 caliber for deer hunting.

The better approach (to me) is to learn to shoot with the 22 rifle. Get the rifle to hunt with when the time comes, but perhaps also get the EBR that you want as well for range shooting. So, now you're probably looking at three rifles. If you really like the EBR and shoot it well, take it deer hunting. But understand its limitations.
 
Ok, So I have decided to go with a 22lr rifle like you guys have suggested. So I can learn to shoot and when I upgrade to a bigger caliber, ill still have something that I can use if I just want to shoot alot of bullets for cheap.

Is it worth going used or new? If going used means saving 50 dollars on a 400 dollar rifle, I would rather buy new, but If I can get a 400 dolla rrifle for 200 then I would rather go used.

What area the rifles and their respected price ranges I should be looking for?

From this post I know there is the rugers 10/22, Savage Mark II or CZ 452/453. Which would be best and how much with they cost? Look wise I just have one major concern. I dont want anything with a wood stock. So I would be looking for the plastic/metal look. Also for this rifle, what would be a good scope.. Obviously it is for closer ranges, so I assume I can get a 'cheap' scope and it will serve its purpose.
 
Obviously it is for closer ranges, so I assume I can get a 'cheap' scope and it will serve its purpose.
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You may mean 'inexpensive' scope. It can be hard to spot these among the cheap ones.

Inexpensive scopes can still be waterproof and maintain zero. The quality of the glass may not be up to the top of the line scopes, but a little edge distortion won't make a lot of difference.

You don't want to waste money on a scope that won't hold its zero, or one that fogs at the first hint of rain.

Here's an example (not a recommendation) -

http://www.opticsplanet.net/konus-konuspro-riflescope-4x32-7262.html

Note the features: Nitrogen charged, waterproof, etched reticle, designed for .22, fixed 4X

Other manufacturers make similar scopes. IMO, it is very unlikely you will be happy with a $20 scope.
 
Yea, thats what I meant by that.
Can you explain what holds zero mean? I understand what it could mean just by what the word means, but not quite sure how it relates. Don't you have to adjust the scopeeverytime you use it , or do you mean it gets kicked out of alignment after every shot?
 
I am amazed that no one has mentioned the Browning BAR. It is available in a number of chamberings that will be suitable for deer. The Browning is a high quality and accurate rifle and quite pleasing to the eye. The design has been around for a long time and is very reliable.
 
Sorry for the slang. With a .22, recoil isn't likely to jar the scope enough for it to slip its adjustments internally. This is definitely a concern for centerfire rifles, however.

If the rifle is subjected to target duty only, and can be protected by a case and a covered shooting range, there may be less concern for features like a waterproof design and a turret design that will not get knocked out of adjustment by a bump.

However, if you ever take it in the field, it is quite likely to get a little wet and occasionally knocked around a little. A cheap scope won't survive that, but a well-made one will. Of course, there is no reason to expect the scope to be used to drive nails (although there was once an ad that showed that), but you should have confidence that the adjustments are as you set them.

I have read "horror stories" of cheap scopes that wouldn't hold zero just because they got left in the sun, so it isn't just G-forces that can make things move around.

As far as adjusting it every time you use it, I don't believe that is common practice for the short ranges involved with shooting a .22 rifle. The "dial your shot" crowd use scopes with target turrets (larger adjustment knobs that are typically not protected by weather caps and require no tools) and drop tables or ballistic calculators, wind gauges, humidity indicators, etc. and are shooting at extreme range with generally specialized calibers.

No, the idea for a .22 is to "sight in" at some known range, typically 50 yds. A .22 scope will have parallax designed for that distance, rather than something less useful like 100 yds. At closer ranges, the POI will be slightly higher than the POA, and at longer ranges the POI will be lower than the POA. And, since we're talking about the .22LR, the trajectory falls off quite quickly past 50 yds.

I understand there are scopes with ballistic reticles designed for .22LR, but I would consider these somewhat specialized and of limited utility.

Please understand that there is no magic price point where you will never have trouble with a scope. The higher priced ones tend to have better glass, and also better warranties. The lower priced ones tend to cause more trouble.

One thing I should have emphasized is the etched reticle. Targets for .22's are often quite small, and a thick reticle crosshair can obscure the target. Etched reticles can be made thinner than a wire-type, so that is something else that is a "good thing" to look for when shopping for a scope. Not a requirement, but a good thing.

(I have an old Leupold 1-4X on my .22 rifle, and I find the duplex reticle a little thick occasionally. It was a scope I moved from a .44 Magnum carbine, which it was ideally suited for. I suppose I'll have to cave in and actually buy a .22 scope. :) )
 
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Mosin's a fun choice. Also might want to consider a Savage. Out of the box they're some of the cheapest and most accurate rifles out there. (not pretty some say, but she can dance.)
 
.223 is not legal for hunting deer in many states.

AFAIK, 7.62x39 is mostly legal for hunting deer, but it's not flat-shooting enough, nor is the AK platform accurate enough, to make it very useful for hunting deer in wide-open country like chaparral and plains. In heavily wooded parts of the country, though, where you get a lot closer to the deer, AKs are adequate deer rifles and indeed not unpopular.

If I had $1000 dollars to spend and wanted an all-purpose rifle, I'd probably get a Garand. With the right loads, that's powerful enough to take any game in the lower 48, except for maybe grizzlies and bison, and it will do so at relatively long range.
 
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Ok, gonna go to my local walmart today to look at what they have. I heard walmart has really good prices. Is there any brand 22 that you would recommend that they carry there?
 
It sounds like you want something like an AR type 22. The best one seems to be the Smith & Wesson offering, but the H&K has some potential based on what I have read. My understanding is that they are a lot of fun and shoot "ok" in terms of accuracy. I suspect they are about equal to a Ruger 10/22 out of the box in terms of accuracy.

Something pretty basic would be a Ruger 10/22 Tactical. You pay more for them than the regular 10/22's, and you have to decide if they are worth the extra $. You can make a regular 10/22 pretty "tactical" without putting a lot of money into one. The Marlin Model 60 tends to be more accurate out of the box than the Ruger 10/22 and I like the stainless version with the black composite stock. Marlin also has the detachable magazine version as well.

Savage makes the Mark II (bolt action) with a composite stock if you want a bolt action. Marlin's are also around at a modest price.

The "hold zero" tends to be more related to a variable scope. On some of the cheaper scopes the point of aim changes slightly as you zoom in and out. You generally don't have that problem with a fixed power one. I really like the Weaver Rimfire scopes a lot but they cost a bit more than many optons.

But if you believe you will be adjusting the scope a lot for different distances, I would suggest you get one with the target turrants which usually means more money. Me... I tend to sight them in and only adjust if something changes or significant ammo change like HV to SV kind of thing.
 
A .22 is SERIOUSLY cheap to shoot, and the low recoil and noise makes it easy to learn to shoot. If you only get a full powered rifle, it will be expensive to learn to shoot, and the noise and recoil might will make things difficult. Look here:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=443284
Click to expand...

I am the O/P in that post, I winded up getting a .300wsm (savage 16)
BUT.....I am getting a Ruger 10/22 simply because .300wsm ammo cost 35 bucks for a box of 20. And that is cheap ammo. (Too all that replied to me in that post, your advice did not go unnoticed even though I made it seem as it did, for that I apologize) Do the math, every time it is shot I waste $1.75 which I don't mind TOO much but it would be nice to let off 100 rounds without having to spend $175.00. on .300wsm vs a .22lr that cost about $9.00 to shoot 100 rounds.

Where am I going with this? Get two rifles just as gb_in_ga stated simply for the fact of being able to unload a massive amount of rounds without hurting the pocket. Save the big caliber for hunting and occasional target practice.

So in conclusion, get both....A ruger 10/22 goes for 200 bucks brand new
 
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