What range, what target?

Well, if you are getting tired of redundant questions from newcomers who don't even know what questions to ask, let alone how to use a search function, you probably had better move on from internet forums (any of them). It will drive you crazy if that sort of behavior makes you angry. Oh, too late.

I'm not sure how you could create an "advanced" internet forum that could enforce the level of participation that you want to achieve. If the forum is "self policed" they usually wind up so unfriendly that the people you DO want to attract get tired of the continual newbie bashing and baiting.

I like the rifle forum here because it isn't so caustic and abrasive as the semi auto / tactics and training forums. Guess I don't belong here anymore either.
 
I tend to agree with Tirod on many points. I would have to say these questions would narrow down a better informed answer. Unfortunately from what I have seen I don't believe it will ever stop the "mall whores" that continuously say "for a couple hundred more... get what I have", regardless if the OP says "this is the budget". Its like no one even reads what the question is, just throws out the answer get what I have! So many answers like this do not even come close to what the OP is asking for. For example: read any post about the S&W M&P15 Sporter. A rifle designed for those on a budget, and answers telling the OP to go over budget. Does a post like that really help the OP understand what he is asking while a chest beater is busy bragging? And its so contagious the next poster will most often say "he is wrong, you need what I have". If the OP wanted to start with a TOP END rifle, instead of an ENTRY LEVEL, I am sure even a beginner would be able to tell the difference. If the question is about budget, try to stick to it.

For me, its not the Newbie questions, its the mall whore answer that "nothing is good if its not what I have".
 
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50 cal the best for everything!!!

Don't you know 50 cal BMG is the best for destroying everything bigger is better don't you know, 50 cal will put the biggest hole in your target from paper to elephant........lol
 
jglSprings,
I agree, I have a salt water reef aquarium, and am on 3 forums, and it is the same newbie questions as here but just a different subject, and they seem not to read the "stickies" which has most of the info they are looking for, it seems it is easier to just ask then to read about the whole subject first, or do a search in the correct forum.
Bob
 
Tirod, I'm not sure it would matter much. I've read posts where the OP was very specific in their question..... ie: "Was at the gun shop and have narrowed it down to a used 30-06 in either a Ruger 77 or Rem 700. Which would you buy and why?"

Every 3rd post is "buy a Savage", or "buy a Tikka", or "buy a Weatherby Vanguard", all of which totally ignore the very specific question presented by the OP.
 
all of which totally ignore the very specific question presented by the OP.

Totally agree. Many responses lack any thought at all about the subject, just an opportunistic attempt to pitch the posters favorite brand of Koolaid.

If anything, I see them as the poor clueless first time poster, just a few steps past getting their first gun. Add twenty years and some different guns, the myopic view of "My Brand's better than your Brand" starts to fade. They discover there are different ways to design, and levels of quality.

I certainly don't expect new posters to get it - what is more disturbing is that the experienced shooters make NO attempt to chime in and steer the misconceptions to the curb. Instead of pointing out factual information, the field is left to marketers, fanboys, and on occasion, the illiterate text from a cell phone.

The result is like Congress - we get exactly what we deserve: caliber wars and revisionist history. If agenda driven misinformation is what everyone wants, the public media dishes out that BS daily.

It's an interest group forum, someplace you can go to get the real truth not commonly discussed in paid magazine reviews or on a website. The sad truth is that forums actually reflect what the average shooter is thinking, and it's not very substantial.

The public now comes to US to get the real knowledge - not everyone can attend a class, buy a book, or enlist, and even those sources aren't infallible. Posting here with questions deserves a better approach - not "Buy my Brand or you're lame."

Really, who do you know that actually owns only one make of firearm exclusively?
 
tirod,

This forum is just like the real world, in that there will be good questions and bad questions, along with good answers and bad answers. I spent 40 years working in a fairly technical position in the chemicals industry and I answered countless questions over the years. Most questions were not particularly good ones, and it got to the point where I was actually surprised and pleased when a good, well structured question was asked of me. There were occasionally questions that were so stupid that I just didn't know where to start to answer them, but...they didn't know, so I'd do the best I could to answer them and to not make them feel stupid. This forum is going to be like that, and I don't see any advantage in ever telling someone that they just asked an amazingly dumb question. It's nice when you see a good question, so chime in and enjoy the back and forth of the discussion. If you don't think the question is worthy of your time, then just stay quiet. If too much critique is directed toward the person asking the less-than-great question, then other people that need information will see that and be reluctant to ask a question that might not be up to some unknown minimum quality. Those people need to get answers, or in some cases they might even harm themselves or someone else with poor hunting, shooting or reloading practices. Consider your knowledge to be something to be shared for the overall good, even if the question is painful to you or if you've heard the same question again and again. And...be happy that you have the information and years of experience that you can share.

I'm getting to the point in my life where I see that I might not have anyone to pass my accumulated knowledge and tools to - be it woodworking, or hunting, or reloading, or just doing some of the daily things that I do now. Passing along knowledge is good.
 
So, what gun should I buy, then?

:D


For the record, I pretty much agree with Tirod. Just a few details are all that is required.
I also get peeved at the wannabees that don't read the OP's qualifiers, but just spout off about what THEY think is the best (usually the most expensive, or the most popular that they know of)
 
dumb question

I do agree with the OP in part. I also believe the only dumb question in a question not asked. Sometime the" what's best" question is asked because someone does not know and thats where they start. ANd we all kn ow that opinions are like......belly buttons, we all have them. my nickels worth.
 
Every 3rd post is "buy a Savage", or "buy a Tikka", or "buy a Weatherby Vanguard", all of which totally ignore the very specific question presented by the OP.
Click to expand...

Might be that we think they are better guns and less expensive and more accurate. But that is a subjective opinion.

Jim
 
Hornetguy, I think you should buy a Savage. Everyone says so:) And even though I don't have a Savage, I was in Bass Pro Shop the other day and saw a Savage rimfire bolt gun that was super nice. I darn near bought it on the spot.

And for the record, I agree with most of what tirod said. Still...people have questions and all we can hope is that they ask the best questions they can with the most info they have. Just go easy on them when it's vague or imcomplete, or it leaves out most of what you'd need to answer it. Don't we get that incomplete question in the real world when somebody asks where to go to get the best Mexican Food. Well...do ya mean the best fajitas, or the best enchiladas, or the best Margarita. And is that a 500 yard Margarita or just a short range Margarita. :)
 
Might be that we think they are better guns and less expensive and more accurate. But that is a subjective opinion.
Click to expand...

And if you had read my entire post you would see that it has nothing to do with the hypothetical scenereo I submitted.

But thanks for proving my point.
 
I'm not attempting to point out any one person's post had a stunningly stupid question in it - I agree the worst question is the one that isn't asked.

And I certainly don't propose making people feel like they just asked the dumbest question in the world. But as said, if the info given seems to lack enough background - to the point someone's safety is involved - hiding behind the excuse someone's feelings might get hurt won't cut it if there is real personal injury. Firearms are not like a quiet game of checkers at the city park.

I do appreciate both sides of this discussion and the way it's being handled. I did overemphasize the point "What range, what target?" for a reason - too many shooters these days aren't making it the point at all, they simply want to buy a token of manhood to show they have arrived. Guns are a lot more than that, not something you get at the mall because the senior class wears it, or because someone handed you a diploma ( for example.)

We designed, buy, and use a tool for a purpose. A firearm has a purpose, beyond the social strategizing American society seems to engage in 24/7 these days. The purpose of a firearm is to launch a bullet FIRST, everything it is and does is subordinate to that.

The BULLET is the primary object - just like the nail has priority over the hammer. Walk into a hardware store and you get plenty of selection of both, but what is all the merchandising about? Hammers - and sometimes we obsess too much about them, not the nail. If anything, the darn nails get ignored - and what the nails are supposed to actually DO gets the least amount of coverage.

Check around, actual use is given short shrift - a token forum on application, the rest of the dozens listed are all about the hammers, with subcategories on framing, general, carpentry, sledge, metalwork, auto body, and combo survival units. One forum on nailing, and then back to subcatgories of carry, holsters, bags, boxes, associated tools, and don't forget past and future models, plus a forum on experimental modifications,and last but not least, making your own hammer.

Contrast asking "What range, what target?" with asking "What joint, what wood?" Carpenters aren't likely to be dismissive about it. They recognize the essence of the job is to correctly fasten a joint together of dissimilar pieces so that it retains it's integrity over a long period of time. Failure is not an option.

Ask "What range, what target?" on a gun forum, and we get "Sure they're dumb, don't hurt their feelings?" Is that a responsible way to pinpoint a problem area?

If the shooter doesn't know the range, and hasn't a clue about the target, it should be the point. They aren't shooting, they are collecting firearms to admire or whatever. It's a free country, they certainly can do that, but putting it in the context of "What's the absolute Best Brand to buy in a SHTF gun." without considering range and target becomes a directionless discussion of "What's the latest Hype that impresses the under 25 demographic in the gun market?"

In terms of self awareness and ability to control their surroundings, it's been suggested that we are the Tier One Being on the face of earth because we are tool users. Therefore, if it's a discussion about anything, it's about use, and that means "What range, what target?"

Ignore that and it becomes a quagmire of fashion and politics - and we have the AWB as a great example of that on one hand, and the closely focused (myopic) concentration of how cool certain curios and relics are on the other - to the point of declaring an obsolete 50+ year old design as the ultimate, bar none.

There are plenty of those posts already.

The name of this forum is "The Firing Line," and if you were standing on one right now with gun in hand, what would the focus of your attention be? Whether other shooters were savvy enough to be congnizant the anodizing matched on the upper and lower of your $1900 gun? Or, "What range, what target?" And what about the guy in the next lane over?
 
I don't have a problem asking a clarifying question of the OP. He may not realize that he hasn't given us enough info to give a good answer to his question. I like newbies and I wish this forum had been around in my early days of shooting. I'd have made fewer dumb mistakes if I'd been able to ask a few "dumb" questions.
And no, I don't have a Savage.....yet!
 
Many of us "Newbies" find this thread intimidating and decidedly unfriendly. But really happy to know what you think of us. There is any easy fix to stupid questions. Just ignore questions that annoy you or label the forum for experienced shooters only. I mostly read and learn instead of posting but feel strongly about this thread.
Kate
 
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Many newbies don't even know this thread exists, they haven't posted here yet.

If the subject matter elicits strong feeling, why?

Many of us Oldies find that there is too much emphasis on the gun as jewelry, and very little as the tool it's meant to be. Count the posts showing new guns fully tricked out, assembled, and tagged with the line "I haven't shot it yet, it's too cold/wet/inconvenient."

Apparently some buy guns to simply possess, not shoot, with an emphasis on what the gun makes them appear to be, whether macho, uber operative, or whatever. Nothing about why it's built to do what a gun should do.

If that strong feeling is negative, is it because someone is calling BS on the whole machismo "I've got a gun." culture, or is there something I missed?

Focusing on "What range, what target?" puts the use of the gun for what it does first and foremost - not posturing in black BDU's at the local gunshow with a completely tricked out stainless Mini 14 just to look cool.

Where's the focus? Is it a gun, or fashion accessory? Are we shooters, or posers?
 
Kalamity Kate, first off, welcome to the playpen! :D

A newbie question which doesn't provide much info is not a problem, particularly. Unfortunately, some folks who don't necessarily know all that much feel the need to show some sort of superiority, I guess. Darned if I know. But I've watched it for quite a few years of moderating this forum.

Seems to be an Internet thing. I see it in many other websites. Folks gotta jump in, whether or not they have anything useful to say. That's just the way some folks are. A wee tad short of being grown-ups. :)

Overall, I guess that my biggest gripe is the harshness of phrasing from some, hiding behind the anonymity of their keyboards. I don't see the point to not being polite and courteous. That's part of the "why" of, "Think twice, edit, and post once."
 
When I start a thread, it's usually to ask a question about other's opinion or expertise. I have received really great answers and some not so great ones. I've also had to clarify my question a couple of times because I did not know how to properly ask the question. :o

When I respond to a thread, it's based on the firearms that I own and know. I base my answer on how the known firearm, caliber, or accessory performed.:D

I think for the most part, these forums have been great and the so are the members. :cool:
 
Post the same question on different forums, as many have, and so I, you get different answers.

The membership and responding posters in each determine the overall character. It often reflects a bias toward one kind of firearm, even in general discussion. And can also reflect a great amount of complete misinformation unrelated to fact. As said, some posters are less than adult or have comprehensive reading skills. I can't help that either.

If pointing out that some would consider answering the simple question "What range, what target?" is harsh or unfeeling, then it's much more a problem with that specific person - not the question itself.

I asked my daughter where she was going today - "How far, what destination?" Valid considering she's working relief in Joplin. I didn't get the feeling that she was unusually imposed on and disrespected to explain. 30% of town is gone, I was helping her to understand as a new car owner and driver where the dangers are.

Same for this topic. It's about guns, what's wrong with asking "What range, what target?" Are we discussing deadly weapons, or showing off icons of status?

I know very well why some think that's not nice to ask, didn't bother me when conducting Basic Training, doesn't here. Some who simply don't know better chafe when confronted with reality. I have the best intentions for their successful enjoyment of firearms, use them for what they are.

I also know very well what it's like to confront one's inner thoughts and motivations on why we purchase and use firearms. Entirely to the point - and asking "What range, what target?" gets us back to the what they do, not what they make us look to be.

Plenty of that kind of stuff on sale at the Mall.

Determine "What range, what target?" and maybe we'll have less of the testosterone driven accessorization, and more on what guns really do. Unless of course, it's really about Show and Tell at the range on Saturday.

Have to ask, which is more harsh, inserting the question in every post that deserves it, or addressing it in one thread. The individual is free not to read it - or respond negatively, just as they recommend. I'm not stalking threads, I'm inviting a discussion. Discussions are methods of communicating information.

My daughter communicated she understood where she was going, and it demonstrated knowledge about the situation. Her safety was the priority.

As made in frequent posts here, many DO understand the necessity of "What range, what target?" New shooters should be asked the question sooner or later. It puts the use of firearms on an baseline of understanding that isn't compromised by social or political agendas.
 
Sure would have saved a lot of typing if you just asked:It depends on what your shooting, what ya got?:)

Being new here myself.:eek::eek:
 
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