What new C&Rs on the horizon next 1, 3, 5, 10 years?

[JiminTexas]

Lets think commercial. How about the S&W model 19 or the Colt trooper? In 4 more years or so the pre 64 Model 70 Winchesters will be elligible. Some of them are now.

 

[carguychris]

Regarding Cuban weapons, I bet that whatever American weapons are left will wind up with the CMP. I strongly suspect that the Batista regime had the weapons on "loan" like most other US allies of the period. Given Cubans' frugal nature and the regime's paranoia, I bet their American guns are stashed in warehouses somewhere, although I imagine they may be badly deteriorated; since the island has been cut off from Western ammunition supplies for decades, the Cuban military would have little incentive to keep them in working order, and tropical climates are not friendly to steel.

OTOH whatever Soviet weaponry the Cubans possessed could be fair game. Maybe they could dump their surplus SKSs on the US market and depress the (IMHO) currently overinflated prices.

Actually, this thread brings up another question I've had for quite some time: Where are all the Tokarev SVT-40s? Didn't the Russians produce something like 6 million of them? They evidently kept and even refurbished most of their Mosin-Nagants, so it's reasonable to assume they kept the SVTs also. Why hasn't some Western importer found out where they are?

 

[BlueTrain]

I'm please there are some liberal thinkers here who thinks it's about time we had a woman president. Personally my picture of a woman president looks more like Madeline Albright than anyone else.

But to return to reality: what precisely and legally is a C&R weapon? I assume one made before a certain year that I don't know.

I think back to the mail order days and what was being offered--and what wasn't. You didn't see, that I recall, M1s and carbines, though they may have been there. You didn't see German Mausers, except for old ones, nor French rifles, except for very old one, or Russian much of anything. All of those were still in use at the time. In fact, bolt action military rifles were still being manufactured in the early 1960s but not many. Except for those armies that had been rearmed with American weapons, most still had bolt actions.

The Russians had adopted, as you know, the SKS but soon thereafter adopted the AK series. All the SKS rifles were put in storage. They may not be C&R but I'd say there are still a lot still out there.

I wonder how many M1 rifles were converted to new rifles by Italy? But I doubt we'll see any of those. But possibly Vietnam has a stock of bolt actions they might decide to sell someday.

The old magazine ads had lots of pistols, all either WWII or even older. Everytime someone adopts a new handgun, there's another possibility for us Americans but don't expect to see any M9 Berettas for sale. From what I gather, all US small arms are either refurbished or shredded.

 

[Cheapshooter]

But to return to reality: what precisely and legally is a C&R weapon? I assume one made before a certain year that I don't know.

If you use the search feature of this forum you will find this has been explained at length many times.
Although there are many commercial sporting arms that are C&R eligible, I think most people who hold the low cost and easily obtained Class 03 FFL (Collector of Curio and Relics) use it to order military surplus firearms directly from the distributors much as was done before the GCA of 1968 ended the mail order firearms business.

 

[SfcMac]

Just about all of the Vietnam weapons M16A1,M79, M60, AK47 and a large number of hand guns will become C&R eligible. in another year or two As far as Milsurp That's about it You other guys are the experts on civilian weapons

 

[essohbe]

Anything/everything available is on the horizon. This thread is all unrealistically presuming that the country will magically turn itself around and not continue to collapse. In reality, if you have the funds, you will be able to buy/trade whatever you want to as long as it can be had.

 

[noelf2]

Anything/everything available is on the horizon. This thread is all unrealistically presuming that the country will magically turn itself around and not continue to collapse. In reality, if you have the funds, you will be able to buy/trade whatever you want to as long as it can be had.

You can already do that if you are willing to break the law !

So, I'm not so defeatist as you I guess. It's been down before, and turned around just fine, with time. It's unrealistic to think it will do otherwise, from a historical point of view. Besides, if the country collapses to the point that all rules/laws are gone, what good will "funds" do?

The CZ70 will have to be C&R soon, but really should be already since the VZ50 already is, and the 70 is just the 1970 upgrade of it.

 

[kozak6]

I think we'll be seeing fewer and fewer rifles as far as C&R's go due to the trend towards automatic rifles. Consider all the chopped up parts kits out there. But who knows what we'll get in the meantime?

As for pistols, it's anyones guess.

Actually, this thread brings up another question I've had for quite some time: Where are all the Tokarev SVT-40s? Didn't the Russians produce something like 6 million of them? They evidently kept and even refurbished most of their Mosin-Nagants, so it's reasonable to assume they kept the SVTs also. Why hasn't some Western importer found out where they are?

Wikipedia says only 1.6 million.

Russia likely still has mountains and mountains of cool stuff.

The big problem is that during the Clinton administration, a "Voluntary Restraint Agreement" was created. If a firearm isn't on the "ok" list, Russia can't export it here. SVT-40's didn't make the list.

It's really quite sad. Currently, the Russians are converting TT-33's to air pistols just so they can sell them to us.

 

[raftman]

I've always figured when the N. Korean regime falls... we may end up with some of their old stuff at our gun shows.

 

[carguychris]

The big problem is that during the Clinton administration, a "Voluntary Restraint Agreement" was created. If a firearm isn't on the "ok" list, Russia can't export it here. SVT-40's didn't make the list.

I was under the impression that the agreement only covered newly manufactured "sporting" arms, not C&Rs.

 

[Ignition Override]

Cheapshooter's comments about the "west" Europeans wanting to destroy all surplus weapons seem to be quite valid.

I somehow found a website over a year ago for a British/Euro association which pays countries to destroy any and all if possible. Their supposed goal is to keep guns away from African war lords and child warriors (i.e. "Blood Diamonds", Monrovia, Liberia etc).
Even South Africa ordered stores to destroy old Lee-Enfield rifles etc, in case insurgents decide to prefer them over AKs, FALs etc.
Importers here reportedly must outbid those groups, in order to not only save the ammo, but also import it.

Those regulations do not seem to apply to Serbia and Russia.
One problem with Russia is that the Ukraine has the only year-round port for the former Soviet Republics, and all ships from the Black Sea come through the Bosporus channel by Istanbul, Turkey.
One day, access to Tula, "Wolf", GT, Bear (& all AK-74) might be a problem for a while?

raftman: Hope your forecast comes true, but if those Garands in South Korea are too evil to import, let's hope that North Korea's export guns can be easily modified to survive our restrictions.

 

[emcon5]

But to return to reality: what precisely and legally is a C&R weapon? I assume one made before a certain year that I don't know.

Here you go:

Curios or relics. Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

For military rifles, I think we are pretty much done, for the stated reasons. The only one I can think of that seems like a likely candidate would be the Dragunov, but that would probably be by date only, I can't see a currently fielded military weapon being added to the C&R list any time soon.