What makes you a good shot at the range?

Didn't say how often I hit them but hit them I do, 5 gallon bucket pretty regular, pins and clays maybe 30%. Plenty of witnesses from carpenters to preachers to assistant chief of police. Even my misses are inside a foot with all my guns but one. No big trick to it just takes a little patience, concentration and basic fundamentals. Biggest thrill of the day is to coach a new shooter who has never fired any farther than the usual SD targets and get him to shooting way out beyond. Gives them more confidence in what their gun can do and does wonders in instilling more confidence in their own abilities.

I'm willing to go to the range with anybody in my area and shoot with them so they can see for themselves. If they are long range shooters all the better, if they aren't they will be by the time they leave.

Special invite to Catfishman and Double Naught Spy. I talk better with my guns than my mouth.
 
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It's personal

Do you enjoy what you do? If so then you are good.

Have fun, be safe and don't worry about the prima donnas.

Find a style of shooting which matches your temprament and go for it.

Shooting for me is a way to find a space were all my troubles care and worries go away. It puts me in a ZEN state.

Have fun and don't worry about it.
 
Good practice makes you a good shot.

Personally it depends on your devotion to practice. I would loose to guys like Jerry Miculek or Dave Sevigny. I beat most of the field when I compete locally. The most important however is surviving on the street and we just don't know how we will do until it happens. So get as accurate as possible, as fast as possible, and as tactically savvy as possible. Then don't worry about the rest.
 
I always thought the el presidenta was a good easy way to judge.three IPSC or IDPA targets at 10 meters spaced 1 meter apart. Shoot 2 rounds into eaach target, reload and shoot 2 more into each target. 4 seconds 0 points down will win this stage at any match
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Yep - sure will. On the El Prez, that's a hit factor of 15 (= 60 points/4 seconds). According to this USPSA Classifier Percentage Calculator, that's better than 100% of all USPSA shooters, in any division. IOW, it's never been done - at least as part of an official classifier. :rolleyes:

IMO:

From the draw, all 6 shots on an 8" circle at 7-10 yards? Anything under 3 seconds is good. 2-ish is mighty fine.

El Prez? Depends on the platform, but using a standard service revolver, a consistent and clean sub-10s is very good. In the low 8s is mighty fine. Moonclip wheelgunners can take 0.5 - 1 second off that. Semi-auto guys, 1 -1.5 seconds, I'm guessing.

Accuracy at 25 yards? IMO, a good, but not excellent shooter with a service-sized handgun should be able to shoot honest and consistent 3" 5-shot freestyle unsupported groups onto an NRA 25yard slow-fire target. Revolver shooters should be able to do this shooting single and double action. Excellent would be consistently 2.5" or less.

As some noted, being able to do the 1st 2 doesn't mean the 3rd is automatic, and vice versa.

But I would imagine a lot of handgun shooters spend most of their time at the range poking holes in stationary paper targets.
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Shooters at a typical local range often seem to shoot like this, but they don't usually present much of a bar to surpass, either.

I'd like to know how I stand up against the "good" and even the "best" shooters out there.

Is there a place where I can find stats like this?
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Shooting matches is where you start to see what's possible & achievable. And I'm not referring to some big match that draws sponsored shooters, either: You'll likely see some impressive shooting even at your local match.

Short of that, you could get some USPSA targets and a par timer and shoot some actual USPSA classifiers (1st link), then use the Calculator below to see how you'd rank among USPSA shooters.

http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/
http://www.classifiercalc.com/


If you're wondering how your target accuracy stacks up, get some 25 yard slow fire (NRA B-16) targets and shoot a bunch of 10-shot unsupported 25 yard groups. Calculate your average score and see how you compare (keeping in mind that bullseye shooters also shoot at 50 yards, and do all their shooting 1-handed):

High Master: 97.00 and above
Master: 95.00 to 96.99
Expert: 90.00 to 94.99
Sharpshooter: 85.00 to 89.99
Marksman: Below 85.00
 
Mr Borland you are correct I actually posted that and had every intention to add to it. I'd definatly agree with your assesment 6.5 seconds with a bottom feeder is pretty good. The pros will be under 5.
For accuracy at 25 yards I'd say 3" 5 shot group offhand is pretty good
 
This is the one gun, H&R 922, I do not consider a 200 yard shooter. I bought it new in 69 in San Diego California because as a newly married sailor I didn't have a lot of money to burn. In spite of it being the hardest to shoot because of its awful trigger pull and thin knife edged front sight and my old eyes waiting for cataract surgery it still does this at 25 yards and 100 yards. Not good enough for squirrel but still minute of rabbit...most of the time. Both targets shot standing off hand, (one hand unsupported.)

bigsmallborebullseyetar.th.jpg
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As awful as that gun is it literally taught me to shoot handguns. I had given up my pistols and quit the pistol team because I wasn't improving and it was no longer fun. Instead I spent 9 months running around the desert shooting jack rabbits with this gun and I had to learn patience, grip, sight, breath and trigger control if I was going to put a rabbit in the freezer. Things my coach had tried to teach me but I was to bone headed to learn. 9 months later I stopped in to watch a match. they were a member short so they loaned me guns and ammo, signed me up and I not only won my class but advanced a class that day. The difference was I was not expecting to win, there was no pressure on me but all the hard work I had put in playing in the desert just transferred to the target pistol I was shooting.

I guess if I had to define the qualities of a good shooter the number one thing I would have to say is attitude. If it isn't right you will not become as good as you can be.
 
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hook686,

Hook, are you tring to say that I lie like a Persian rug. Well do you know what, I don't blame you a bit. It does sound a little far fetched doesn't it. Well let me give you a little more information. First of all no one is going to learn how to do it except by doing it. There lies the rub. IMHO, tring to learn to shoot at speed by shooting at speed will only result in your picking up so many bad habits you may never learn how to do it correctly. The same is true with the speed draw. It helps if you have someone work with you who knows what to look for. A friend who wants to learn the same things that you do is also a big help. You are going to do everything S L O W L Y. Look at yourself in a upright mirror. Practise with your carry piece MAKE SURE IT IS EMPTY. Start from your normal upright stance. At this point do not wear a jacket. Move your hand to the grip. Now take the pistol from your holster and point it at you in the mirror. Now shut your eyes. and slowly replace the pistol in your holster. did you make it in the first trip? Did the pistol feel the same in your hand when it was holstered as it did when it was pointing at the mirror? When you reach for the pistol grip, do you go straight to it? Do you have a full grip on the pistol grips or do you have to search for it. Do not start to move the pistol from the holster until you have a full firm hold of the grip. From now on you start you point from your elbow. When you have the pistol pointing at your target the pointing line starts from your elbow, straight down the middle of your forearm to your wrist, the wrist should not be bent, straight down your pistol barrel to the target. Elevation is done at the elbow. Minor movements left and right are made from the shoulder. The wrist should never go soft. Large adjustments right and left are done from the feet or waist. After you get some experience you will feel the difference in your body. Remember all this is done slowly. When you reach the point that you can hit a tennis ball five out of six shots then you can slowly increase your speed to half speed.

When you start working with ammo, everything goes back to slow speed. Be sure that you have a bank or other safe target to shoot towards. And slowly increase your speed to half speed. There is never a reason to draw at full speed for practise. 3/4 speed is as fast as there is a need to draw at.

Well there it is, do that over a two year period and you will be proficient.
Don't worry, if the need ever arises that you need the speed, you'll have it.
All that slow movement you went through will train the memory of your muscles.
 
I don't mean to hijack the thread but most of the responses to the OP's question state accuracy and time requirements independent of stating with X gun and Y ammunition.

On average it seems most production pistols are only capable of 3" or maybe 2" groups with the guns favorite ammo (not getting into hand-loaded ammo). So you literally can't do any better than: 3" at 25 yards, 1.8" @ 15 yards, 1.2" @ 10 yards, and .6" @ 5 yards.

Unless you hand-load your ammo and/or you are using a handgun with above average precision you can't do better than that. The ammo and the pistol limit you too much. Revolvers are inherently more accurate than this though... so you might want to use a revolver or maybe a .22 in order to surpass that.
 
Get better than him and be REALLY Good!!
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Get better than Jerry with a revolver? Do that and you will be the best.

I had the luxury of watching Jerry shoot in 1995. As he talked to us in the crowd, he was popping a full moon clip in and out of his revolver, while looking at the crowd. He never missed and I lost count after 12 times. He did it many more times than that.

A friend of mine (Cliff Walsh) recently beat Jerry with the revolver. He said that Jerry made some out of the ordinary mistakes that gave him an opening. Guess father time is calling old Jerry.
 
But I would imagine a lot of handgun shooters spend most of their time at the range poking holes in stationary paper targets.
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Shooters at a typical local range often seem to shoot like this, but they don't usually present much of a bar to surpass, either.
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Funny thing, most ranges will not allow you to shoot moving targets, certainly not in a regular training format. Sure, they might let you shoot them during matches. Say you shoot a 200 (hits needed for a perfect score) target match (though many are with far fewer). What % of your shots will be at moving targets? Think about it. How much of the time do you get to spend shooting those moving targets other than the match. I have been to matches like the rest of you where folks note that the only time they ever get to practice with moving targets is during the match and then it is for a very limited number of shots.

Most ranges don't like you shooting on the move either. http://contour.com/stories/save3

I built my own range for this reason. This is one of my favorite targets. The first (old video) is a 6" target at 12-15 yards. The second vid is a 9" version, 25 yards with frangible ammo, on a longer chain, swinging faster and further. These are great targets that frustrate me (when out of practice) and newer shooters who don't fully comprehend how much tracking and trigger control come into play with moving targets...and that is with the shooter being stationary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9NylptF1G0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6pKmbOXu60&feature=related

This was the view of a 6" version when I was doing setup for the ISHOT1000 match. At 23-24 yards, most shooters hit the ground much more often than the target. That vid had 11 hits out of something like 33 or 34 shots and that was a pretty good set for me.
http://contour.com/stories/second-range-test
 
Compete. Best thing that ever happened to me was to not be born with the need to tell everyone how great I am. If you watch long enough, you may conclude I'm not bad.

Another good thing to happen to me was to get into competition where it was not unusual to have about 5 GM at the match, several of them past world champions. Throw in a large chunk of really good Master class shooter and you learn what good looks like real fast. And you learn... The USPSA classifying system said I was a 65-70% shooter. I have shot big matches on the same day as world champions, same division and my score was 70% of theirs, so I think the classifying system is valid.

The better you get, the less you will care what someone else is doing at the range until you see real talent. My only range claim to fame was that I was about their only exception to their no rapid fire policy. They'd get on the mike and start to yell until they figured out it was me. I usually did rapid fire stuff when the range emptied, holster work when the boss wasn't there. When the place filled up with Gangbangers, I just shot slow, boring tight 25yd groups with my Glock, that was more black magic to them than any speed shooting would be.
 
I don't mean to hijack the thread but most of the responses to the OP's question state accuracy and time requirements independent of stating with X gun and Y ammunition.

On average it seems most production pistols are only capable of 3" or maybe 2" groups with the guns favorite ammo (not getting into hand-loaded ammo). So you literally can't do any better than: 3" at 25 yards, 1.8" @ 15 yards, 1.2" @ 10 yards, and .6" @ 5 yards.
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Glock 17, factory configuration, shooting Ultramax factory reloads, 5rds at 50ft, unsupported:
RTF17-2.jpg




Glock 26, shooting Remington/UMC, 5rds @ 45ft, unsupported.
62510.jpg




'Drew
 
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