What makes a good AR?

S

semi_problomatic

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What features make AR A better than AR B? I've really got my heart set on a rock springs elite operator2. But I keep reading people say get a BCM or some other maker.

The RRA already has all the features I want in an AR. Mid-length gas system, chrome barrel and bolt, two stage trigger, free floated handguards which only have the rails half-way down them. It has the operator CAR buttstock (ok, so I don't like how the pad moves down to expose the holes that I'll never use) but I always hated the skinny buttstock on my M4A1's. And the ergo pistol grip and flip-down front sight post. AND it comes with a rear sight of your choice. I was pretty amazed when I found out that some companies don't include a rear sight but do have a front sight post...

So what makes a BCM or other ($1000) AR better? Is it tangible (like super cryogenitcally thermocoupled flux capactor enhanced metals) or workmanship, or more quality control?

The only things I plan on adding is a sling, magwell grip (if I can find one that doesn't interfere with loading and unloading the magazine), and maybe a red dot or holo sight.
 
It depends on how much you're going to shoot. If you're only going to put a couple hundred rounds through it a year, you're fine with any entry level AR. If you're going to be using the hell out of it taking AR classes or shooting 3 gun a higher grade AR like bcm, noveske, colt, lwrs, are going to be better. They're well built, and use high quality parts. Chrome lined barrels, chrome plated bolt carrier groups and so on. The rock river AR's are not bad rifles though if that's what you want. 1 of my 7 AR's is a rock river match gun and I haven't had any issues with it in the 4,000 or so rounds that have been through it. Depending on how much use it's going to get is what should determine on the grade rifle you get. You'd be better off spending the extra money now then later on down the road replacing parts.
 
Apparently RRA's are chrome moly barrels...which isn't chrome lined like I thought.... Anybody need to buy a kidney? Slightly used but works well....
 
Mostly, things come down to adherance to milspec materials and quality. Milspec is based on 3 things we don't use much: 1) full auto; 2) harsh environment; 3) 100% reliability.

For a range semiauto AR, RRA is fine. Don't think that barrel steel is subpar. It is just normal. FA AR's need the higher spec, but we don't.

Accessories also add to cost. Super spec rails, buttstocks, grips, etc really look cool, but can add $500 quick to a rifle for what? Low end Accesories look cool, but are often misaligned, easily damaged airsoft crap.

I would rather spend the extra on a good 1-4x scope or EO Tech and ammo.
 
As near as I can tell from browsing through a few hundred threads over a bunch of years, any AR will work okay for what might be called "general use". Just to pick a number, say a few hundred rounds per year.

Main thing is keeping them reasonably cleaned and lubed. Some might need a little tweaking to improve on minor design or manufacturing problems, but in general they don't seem to need much.
 
You are asking a great question, and one that will have different answers depending on what is important to you and what your intended use for the rifle will be.

The links RT provided give a good foundation to those who chase the title "Mil-Spec". There is also what it refered to as "The Chart", which many tout as the ultimate reference by which every AR is measured, but whose genesis and maintenance is somewhat in question. I've no problem with a reference for particular options, but every reference should be held accountable to updates in the information.

I would argue, depending on your application, that some Mil-Spec items are more important than others. For instance, the dimensions of the lower are critical! A chromed lined barrel for me, not so much. Why? Because there is no way to keep the chrome inside the barrel to a certain thickness tolerance, thereby introducing a variable that can impact accuracy.

The same can be said of stainless barrels. It not 4150 steel, but for many for their application or aesthetics, they prefer stainless.

This is just one example of many you can find if you dig.
 
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What features make AR A better than AR B?
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The quality of the barrel, BCG and RE.

4140 vs 4150 barrel steel.

Bolt carrier should be 8620 steel with the correct shot peening, heat treatment and coating. The bolt should be Carpenter 158 steel with the correct heat treat, HPT and MPI.

The RE should be forged 7075 aluminum and the correct diameter.

Only you can decide if you really need these options. Commercial grade components may exceed your needs.
 
Madcrate isn't wrong, but for the sake of discussion, things aren't all that black and white.

While 4150 steel isn't milspec - when you nitride it, it's arguably better than 4160 chrome lined. What's more important is when the barrel is accurately rifled with variations held to a minimum, as measured by airgauging. A smooth internal finish is also preferred. Milspec is a lot more than a material grade callout.

Same for the bolts - mag particle inspection of every bolt is great, that means your bolt isn't likely to have cracks in it from the manufacturing process. Steel grade is more a negotiation between Colt and DOD, bolts can be had made from 9510, which is considered superior steel. It's also more expensive and a bit more difficult to machine - which is why Colt doesn't use it. If it's not needed, they sure aren't going to offer it under contract.

The original receivers weren't 7075, but the harsh environment in Vietnam showed they needed the extra corrosion resistance. So that change was made. In terms of material strength, the soldier didn't see any improvement or accuracy, just a bit less to clean after a long slog thru rice paddies.

A lot of the selection of what steels and alloys are used is also wrapped up in how the parts are made. 7075 can forge acceptably, but the newer uppers on other guns are made by extrusion. Nobody's said, but they may be using a different grade. Same for barrels - hammer forging a slug into a finished barrel could allow for a different alloy that accepts the process with less defects.

Don't let things get too far off base, it's all about a negotiated spec to make the M4 - a burst/full auto service rifle. Compare that to what could replace it - an extruded upper, polymer lower, hammerforged nitride barrel - and you see "milspec" thrown out the window and made completely new in the future. The AR was leading edge 45 years ago, not so much now.

I fully expect it to go out of service, just like Woodland BDU's and 2 1/2 ton trucks. But, we won't get them from DCM - which could shut down, too.
 
As usual, I agree with Tirod with one caveat.

It has been my experience that those companies who aren't "building to the TDP" don't do a very good job in individual parts quality or quality of assembly because they aren't even building to the Minimum requirements of the TDP.

There are quite a few companies who build better than the TDP (some much better). Using more modern parts and processes that are superior to the TDP specifications. But those generally cost even more than the "TDP spec" guns.

When you buy a "TDP spec" gun you are paying for consistency more than anything else.

Friday's 4:00 rifle has a much better chance of having the same performance Tuesdays 9:00am rifle.
 
Just remember to make the decision that is right for you. If that means Mil Spec, so be it. But realize most respectable guns (beyond ARs) out there are not Mil Spec.;)
 
I think I've decided to build one. Seems the cheapest route to go. Either that or buy the RRA and swap the barrel out for a chrome lined one. Or a spikes and swap out all the furniture... I had thought milspec was just sizing, so part A could swap over to rifle B. I want to be able to dump every mag I have through the gun and have some assurance its going to last.

So far I'm looking at a spikes flat top billet upper, spikes tactical pirate lower w/ basic lpk and no buttstock (hey, it cost the same but has a Calico Jack engraved on it). I'm looking into a CMMG barrel, but having a hard time finding the 1:8 barrel thats chrome lined. And a Geissele SSA-E trigger. Thats about as far as I've gotten tonight. Still need to find a BCG and hand guards. Oh and a flash hider, and I guess sling mounts...and and and...

If the barrel comes with a bolt, would it be better to get the bcg from the same company? There's just so many different coatings, designs...etc to wade through. Looked into a LWRCI one piece bcg, but can't figure out if thats for DI or a piston set up.

Seems like every time I get an answer a million questions pop up.
 
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I don't compete yet, so my S&W Sport works great as a range/HD rifle. No issues after 3000 reloads.

However if you plan to hang a bunch of weights off the front and blow another $800 on a spiffy stock set, it might not appeal to you. All a matter of preference.
 
Are the hanging weights to absorb recoil or is it a workout routine you do? And the spiffy stock set, is that the name brand and can I get it in leopard print?

Not really sure what the point of your post was...are you endorsing the S&W sport??

How much HD have you done with your rifle? Just curious what about it made it great for HD.
 
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If you are going to build, I recommend getting a copy of last week's Shotgun News. Fortier ran a basic article that hit some highpoints to include recommended tools.

I am certain you can find a plethora of videos on YouTube dedicated to it as well.

There are also some DVDs out there from gunsmith schools on the topic.

By building your own, you can get exactly what you want. Just be aware that resale of what is called a "Franken Gun" is not as good as the sum of it's parts, as has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum.
 
It depends on how much you're going to shoot. If you're only going to put a couple hundred rounds through it a year, you're fine with any entry level AR
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Do people really only put a couple hundred rounds through there AR a year? I put a couple rounds hundred down it every time I take it out which I try to do at least two times a month.
 
Yeah, thats why I decided to go the build my own route when everyone said the RRA would only be good for a couple hundred rounds a year. I shoot more than that out of a bolt action...with a 5 round mag....lord only knows how much I'll shoot out of a semi with 30 round mags.
 
Seriously... Does anyone really truly believe that an AR which is not 100% mil-spec is "only good for a couple of hundred rounds per year"....?

Does this attitude strike anyone besides me as being just a little bit delusional?
 
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