What kind of gun did Wild Bill Hickock and Wyatt Earp use?

ZVP said:
What is your opnion of Hickock's choice?
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The 1851 Navy points better than the 1861 Army. In fact the 1851 grip is the one Colt used on the SAA, one of the best pointing handguns of all time.

Little was known about wound ballistics back then. All they knew was either one of them made a hole in you. Also soft lead round balls, do more damage than you might think.

Since the 1851 pointed better and handled faster, I'm fairly certain thats why Bill used the Navy Colt. Sights on handguns were primitive at best and point shooting was the style of the day.
 
Something else I find interesting about the open-top Colts is that the whole gun actually forms a pretty good "big crude fast sight", better than most revolvers and as good as stuff like 1911s, Glocks, etc. With those latter types, the top ISPC/IDPA guys in iron-sight classes are using the whole gun as a big crude sight and doing target-focus instead of focusing on the front sight like modern doctrine says. Many of these guys have abandoned colored sights completely so as not to distract from this process.

I think they've re-discovered what ol' Bill knew about his open-top Colts. Bill has been recorded as doing a sight alignment in combat shooting in that one well-documented duel, but I for one doubt he actually used the miniscule sights.

He used the whole gun.
 
Yes, the open-top factory sights were crude as hell. But you didn't have to use them. That's the point...the cylinder lined up with the exposed-to-view barrel to form a nice "non-sight" the way any topstrap revolver does NOT. With a topstrap revolver, SA or DA, what you see from the rear is the rear sight and front sight only. You can't use the cylinder and barrel to form a sight index the way you can either an open-top revolver OR a modern semi-auto.

So in that sense, the open-top sights were actually compatible with a modern, advanced technique that didn't become common until autos were common in personal defense carry, which is actually fairly recent in the US in large numbers.
 
So let me get this straight Jim March. Are telling me to go out and buy a Colt New Agent and start experimenting?


new_agent_470x350.jpg


Okay, if you insist, I might as well. I needed an excuse to buy a new gun.:)
 
"... Bill has been recorded as doing a sight alignment in combat shooting in that one well-documented duel, but I for one doubt he actually used the miniscule sights...."


I disagree with that thought. I do agree that some good shooting can be done by "feel" and "pointing", but sights still make a difference. I don't think the sights on percussion Colts are all that bad. Not as good as squared sights, but entirely functional if you have decent vision. I've hit gallon size rocks @ 80 yards with them.

If in doubt, look at the sights on Hickoks guns in the picture above. One has been replaced with a very small dovetail front sight. That looks to me like he had it modified to hit exactly where he wanted it to. Only one has been changed. It's possible it was lost, but I'd bet it was done to make that particular gun shoot to the sights.

I've seen other old percussion Colts with similar sights.
 
They reeact the gunfight every year during "Springfield Days" or some such. (I live in the sticks and try to stay out of town.
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I feel the same way about Tombstone. I was born and raised in this country, so there's really nothing new there for me.

Even so, once in a while a friend or relative will visit from other parts of the country, so I've done the Tombstone thing a few times.

Daryl
 
Mike,

I was talking about then. Different values then. Times change.

But I'm all for shooting criminals any way you can, facing you, running away -- any way you can. Unfortunately, it's not legal, even today.

I like the old ways...

-- John D.
 
Befoe it's too late...

The video of Bad Bob and Roy Bean reminded me of something I advise all of you to do

A long, long time ago I took the family on vacation and on the way we stopped in Langtry. This was before it had been “discovered”. I have pictures of the family lined up at the bar inside the Jersey Lilly Saloon. I talked with a man who was kin to the Bean family, if I recall aright he was a nephew of Bean. He told some interesting tales about Bean, some of which might have been true. He made his income by folk buying things at the small store. There was no admission charge to go into the saloon,

Some years later we went by Langtry again. What a change! A building had been built over the saloon and it was now a Texas State Park. One viewed the saloon through windows and speakers told about Roy Bean.

I took the family on a trip through Mexico a long, long time ago and somewhat off the beaten path got to meet the widow of Poncho Villa; she was running a home for “unfortunate” girls. Again, I have pictures of the family with her (a donation was expected for this and I was happy to do it). The car, 1915 Dodge I believe it was, that Poncho was killed in was in a small room. We got to go in and actually sit in the car (a nice tip helped with this). I’m certain it has now been “discovered” and is nothing like it was then.

So—If you know of something which has not yet been “discovered” go see it now. Once “discovered” it will never be the same again.
 
Given the crude state of medical care in Wild Bill's and Wyatt Earp's day even what we would call a minor wound was often fatal. The .36 Navy probably does equal the .380 but a lead ball has more potential for expansion-flattening, actually-than an FMJ, also the longer barrel allows for somewhat higher velocity. And it sems Wild Bill was a firm advocate of "bullet placement vs. bore size". Plus the 1860 Colt Army would have taken some time to reach the frontier where he was.
 
"...Plus the 1860 Colt Army would have taken some time to reach the frontier where he was."


How long would it take? I would just mention that the War had many many thousands of 1860's in circulation, and it was considered rather popular in general by the mid 1860's. Hickok wasn't killed until '76. The army had been using some of the SAA's for 2 or 3 years by then, and some had been in civilian hands as well. I believe he simply liked the '51 model. I also like the feel of the '51's better than the 1860's.
 
The shootout at Rock Creek Station was in 1861, all the accounts I have read said Hickok used an 1851 Navy. Jim Cirillo showed what can be done with a 38 Special. No doubt many 1860 Armys were avaliable after April 1865.
 
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David McCanles "called out" Wild Bill from the Station House. Wild Bill emerged onto the street, immediately drew one of his .36 caliber SA Navy revolvers, and, at a 75-yard stand-off distance, fired a single shot into McCanles's chest, killing him instantly


steve
 
What is your opnion of Hickock's choice?
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I think it served him very well. Wild Bill won every gunfight he was ever in except the last one, when the coward shot him in the back. No sidearm would have mattered in that instance.
 
It was said that the gun Earp had at the time of the OK corral was a Merwin & Hulbert gun, and he himself said that the Merwin & Hulbert was a favorite to him. I can't get a pic to post, or I would show the style he supposedly used. It was less expensive than colt, etc. and had a strong barrel, good for hitting people over the head, which he was known for doing. It was also used a lot by the military.

Buntline, claimed his was the gun that Earp used, to hype up sales ... Which Earp denied ever having one. Generally it was agreed he didn't use or own a Buntline... .

But, Earp owned a lot of guns thru time. Then later, it is said his wife Josephine would buy guns at pawn shops, etc. and sell them off as one of "Wyatt Earp's guns" to make some extra cash for them.


And... I also went into Judge Roy Bean's saloon, inside, at the bar, etc. Also went up to and saw the building he built for Langtry to perfom in. I have heard it's terrible now that the Texas Rangers took it over as a state park and museum.
 
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