what kind of group 223 rem

T

turkeybuzzard

New member
I finally got my scope mounted on my rem 223 vs sf. Don't have any reloading dies yet and I was wondering what kind of group at 100 yards to expect out of the rifle with federal value pack ammo. It was just about dark when I got the scope mounted and bore sighted. I will have to say it didn't look good at all maybe a four inch group. I hope the barrel is ok, it is a second hand gun that the seller said was new, ha. I would have thought it would group better than that, could have been me, ammo, or gun. I decided to buy loaded ammo instead of just the brass. Now I have hulls to load when I get some dies! Thanks
 
Don't expect match accuracy out of value pack ammo. 4" at 100 yards may be the best it can do. Shoot some 68-69 grain match ammo and report back.
 
all depends on the twist. my cz had a 1:14 twist and shot 35gr vmax the best. average with a decent scope was .5 to .75 5 shot group. if i went above 50 gr bullets the pattern would open up to about 2 inches
 
After posting this question, I spotted the set of Allen wrenches by my computer. I remembered I took the barrel off when I got it home after I bought it. I went out to my shop and tightened everything down, I hope it shoots better tomorrow. Hope it was my brain fart that is the problem. I know these guns suppose to shoot good out of the box! It has 1:12 twist and hs stock.
 
You took the barrel off a Remington 700 with "allen wrenches"?
We have a question in terminology or there's more to the story. Did you clean the bore before shooting?
 
I remembered I took the barrel off when I got it home after I bought it.
Click to expand...
:confused:

And BTW, Federal brass IMO, and many others, is not reloadable.

EDIT: I was very concerned that the person who sold you a "new to you" rifle, and claiming it was new, might have sold you a rifle with a ragged out barrel :(

I sure hope not though. But a VSSF should shoot way better than 4" groups with any ammo.

EDIT 2: A very thorough copper removal process would have been my number one priority as soon as I found out the creep sold you a used rifle under false pretenses.
 
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Any pre owned rifle I purchase gets a super thorough cleaning before I fire the first shot. First, the barrel gets cleaned with a 'powder' solvent like Hoppes. Then it gets a thorough cleaning with a 'copper solvent' like Butch's bore shine.

Then get 3 different brands of factory ammo in whatever bullet weight you prefer. Check the gun's shootability with each brand of ammo to find out what it prefers.
 
I cleaned it good before I shot it, I too hope the barrel isn't shot out. The gun looks new and I hope tightening the bottom screws holding everything together fixes the problem. I don't have a book on it and I might google the torque on the two allen head bolts. Why can you not reload federal brass, been doing so for years on my 30.06, 243, 22.250,300 wm, 25.06, ect.,ect.
 
Federal brass: Lots of folks agree it's way too soft.

First time I tried it in 30-06, the primers pockets were severely loose after the first starting load. Went ahead and seated a bullet anyway. Bullet would not stay in the case. Took some measurements and found the necks were extremely thin. Threw them away.

Tried some in 243Win. Again, loose pockets after first firing, they were sticking in my chamber even though this was a starting load.

Tried them in 22-250Rem...... who'da thunk it:rolleyes: loose pockets after first firing...... no more. Done with the stuff.

Did some searching and found many, many people with the same problems.

Just not worth my time to be bothered with trying to load something that "might" work, when I have plenty of stuff I know works.

Hell, I got some Win and Norma brass that the pockets are still plenty tight on and some of them are going on their 8th trip through the size die.
 
My 1:12 likes 50gr best, groups open up quickly if I go above 55gr

I have loaded some Federal cases and did not have any of the issues mrawesome22 reported. I sort my cases into lots by weight when I get them, seems Federal is heavier that Win, Rem. so the ones I have apparently not thinner. They have resized and reloaded fine for me. They do seem softer but I have gotten 4-5 loads from them with no issues. Don't know how to explain the difference in results. I have fazed them out and gone to Win and Rem for my 270 and 243. In 223 I am using once fired Lake Cities military 5.56 that I have converted to 223, if I am not mistaken Lake Cities is Federal, but I do not know if their military brass is made differently than commerial. I know it works very well and is long lived.
 
I've been reloading the cheap Walmart .223 Federal Value Pack. It's on its fourth reload. I have not encountered the problems others have mentioned on here.

Back to the rifle, 1-12 twist gets you up to 55gr. However, your rifle might not like the Federal stuff. I got some really good groups with factory Hornady ammo. My reloads are also Hornady components and shoots half MOA or better at 100 yards. Less than 2" at 200 and can hit golf balls at 340 yards. Yes, your gun can be that accurate. Just have to find the right ammo.
 
damn horse isn't twitching anymore but I'm still not taking any chances...

it's going to depend most heavily on your barrels twist rate and bullet weight. slower twists such as 1:12 and up are going to have very poor performance with anything heavier than 50 grains because it just cant stabilize the bullet. a lot of AR15s use a 1:8 or 1:9 twist rate which is just about perfect for 55-67 grains but not that great with any of the ultra light or ultra heavy bullets. I would wager that it wasn't necessarily shoddy ammo but just the wrong weight for your barrel.
 
Thanks to all for the info, moshooter I torqued the screws down to 45 inch pounds and now I am happy. I will find me some dies and work up a load. It was my brain fart that caused all the problems, Here is a four shot group at 100 yards with a cold barrel, first shot is to the right,second to the left and the two in the middle is three and four. I had a cross wind but held to one spot every time. The group is 1.75 across with federal value pack 55gr fmj ammo from wally world.Thanks again to all that posted.
 

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My VS will shoot 5 shot groups smaller than a dime at 100 yards with the cheap American Eagle (Federal) 50 grain hollowpoints. Never bothered reloading for it as I bought several 1000 of these when they sold for 20 cents a round 15 years ago, and they killed coyotes as good as anything I had.

Actually take that back, I once shot a 300 yard sniper match with it, and it shot the 60grain Sierras loaded with 25 grains of 2520 into a very small group.
 
As others have said a lot depends on the gun and ammo and shooter.
My 700 has been bedded by a very good gunsmith and a jewel trigger set to 1.2 pounds. This is a bench only gun with that light of a trigger.
I have shot factory but just to see what it would do but for the most part it’s never seen anything but reloads. It’s a 1:12 and 55GR are the best and across bags I can get 5 rounds to touch but it did take some trial and error to get there. I have tried some bullets in the 60 GR range and although they were accurate enough they did not match the 50-55.
Also my gun does not like a freshly scrubbed barrel. It gets real close on the 3rd to 6th round. I clean with a wet patch of Bore bright about ever 25 rounds and it will stay on paper very nicely.
It’s an original barrel that came with the gun and has around 700 which is a conservative number.
Also are you shooting factory .223 or 5.56?
There are two things you need to do in ammo to really get the most out of a gun. One is to find out the length of the chamber and trim your cases to the length of the chamber not what the books call out. Second is to seat your bullets to where they just make contact with the lands so that the bullet jump is minimal.
Then try ever bullet you can get hold of and multiple powders and work up. I’m cheep and lazy, I have this thing for 4895 and try to get everything to work with it. In my gun it does like the upper end of the loading but not top.
 
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Hagar wish I could have gotten in on the 20cent per round ammo. Thanks ozzieman, I made a oal gauge for my 22-250 with a bad case but I need to get the chamber length gauge. I am going to order a set of dies. I looked hard at the lee dies but I have always used rcbs. I found a set of redding dies that have fl and neck size both but cost twice as much? Have not found a three pc die set in rcbs with fl and neck size die.
 
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