What is your solution to the War in Iraq?

[Redworm]

Turn the army back into the army (all armed forces included) and let them kill enemies. The US armed forces are not peace keepers, nor are the reconstructionists. They break things and kill people (and lots of other stuff like protecting our people). Break the ridiculous focus on "civilian casualties" because, in case no one noticed, the enemy IS civilians. Not all civilians, obviously. But just freakin kill the guys that present themselves as enemies. I'm talking about things like that parade of Al Sadr insurgents as the US pulled their troops out of some positions at the request of the Iraqi government. Just shoot those guys and save time.

If the bad guys really believed we'd just shoot them on sight, I think we'd have a lot less trouble.

Because they've obviously done such a good job so far of differentiating innocent civilians from enemies.

Maybe...now just maybe we don't have the ****ing right to indiscriminately slaughter the people of another nation. Unless you want America to actually be the evil empirical bully that the rest of the world already thinks we are.

 

[Greg Bell]

When all along our government has been saying that the U.S. believes in Iraq as a sovereign nation?

Well, we have been saying we are in it for the long haul too, but we know that once the Republicans are out of power, we are going to abandon those people we promised to help. We have a pattern of doing this.

When all along our government has been stating the U.S. believes in the Iraqi government we help build and report is a success?

Yes, it has allegedly failed. Time to change plans.

We're then supposed to tell the people of Iraq and the government we help build that we're not leaving their country because we say so - essentially pissing on everything we've stated prior about sovereignty and democracy?

Exactly. We don't care about sovereignty, please get real. Further, democracy is fine. They can mange things like trash collection and dog catching.

Your forecasted change in "dynamics" is based on a flawed theory in my opinion:

Yet you offer nothing, which was the actual question.

They're fighting for a multitude of reasons such as a belief system most of us do not understand. They’re also fighting for the same reasons you or I would fight if this were happening in America – they feel it’s their homeland and they want us out. Whether or not they can win based on sheer firepower inadequacies is of little concern in their eyes.

No, they know we are leaving. They are jockeying for power in post-US Iraq. They don't have to beat us, and they know it.

Would you give up for the same reasons if another nation took occupancy of your homeland? I’m not trying to put a noble face on an otherwise ugly group of miscreants responsible for some damn despicable atrocities, but it baffles me that some people have a hard time understanding that these people are dug in for the long haul, and will fight until the last man is gone.

Everybody claims that they will fight "until the last man is gone." In reality, the only way we can lose is choose to. What they are counting on is that America will lose its nerve. Plus, they know that we don't have the stomach to take the measures necessary to reign them in. That is why I propose we insulate ourselves with privatization and allow the Kurds to administer the nation. The Kurds (using the British colonial model) will use "culturally appropriate" means to manage them (presumably this would mean the widespread extermination of insurgent villages, death squads, torture, etc).

This goes well beyond Iraq. In fact it extends all over the world, and will again be on our soil. It’s just a matter of time unfortunately.

Agreed. That is why we need to deal with these threats realistically. We continue, absurdly, to pretend we are at war with a European nation.

 

[ITEOTWAWKI]

When all along our government has been saying that the U.S. believes in Iraq as a sovereign nation?

When all along our government has been stating the U.S. believes in the Iraqi government we help build and report is a success?

We're then supposed to tell the people of Iraq and the government we help build that we're not leaving their country because we say so - essentially pissing on everything we've stated prior about sovereignty and democracy?

If we take the ratio of things we've said in the past to the things we've actually done, could one rationally infer that because we've said these things, in reality we are going to do what we damn well please and likely stay for a looooong time, if not indefinitely?

The longevity of american bases in Japan, Germany, Korea, and Vietnam should attest to our likelyhood of staying a while.

 

[CobrayCommando]

I say we only use less lethals on insurgents, and after capturing them, breed them. Use their offspring to power a 1 mile in diameter mobile ball (sorta like a hamster ball) that we set loose on North Korea, crushing everything in its path. We would just put virtual reality headsets on the little sand monkeys since birth with a picture of 72 virgins in them.

If you've got a better idea of how to kill 2 birds with one giant hamster ball, let me know.

Theoretically if we bred enough of them we could make another ball and set it loose on China. And another on Vietnam! Settle an old debt. Lets not forget Iran, Syria, Lebanon. Gosh dang we have a lot of enemies that need a good stiff ballin'.

 

[Playboypenguin]

What is it with you people...always resorting to giant hamster balls whenever things get bad.

 

[Blue Heeler]

I think there should be a poll of the Iraq people. Do they want us to stay or don't they? If they say stay, then that's OK. If they don't want us then we should leave. I am really sick and tired of helping lame dogs over stiles.

I'm also sick and tired of hearing about all their gripes and woes. I don't want to know about their 'shadours' or hajibs' or 'burquas' - enough!

Where I come from, if you are wearing a mask, then you are on your way to stick-up a 7/11 or somesuch. I'm absolutely sick of them and all their nonsense.

Poll them and see what's up - it would be the democratic thing to do.

 

[saypek]

What is your solution to the War in Iraq?

None. Iraq is hopeless.

 

[Greg Bell]

That is just silly. I can't believe how defeatist people some folks are about this. It is sad that we have allowed the media and opportunist politicians to create this absurd atmosphere.

 

[Eghad]

Nothing defeatist about it.

Remember the TV Commercial... Silly Rabbit, Trix are for kids. Well Iraq is for the Iraqis to solve. As long as there are Americans in Iraq there will be Islamic fundamentalists in Iraq seeking to kill American Soldiers. Osama wants a victory over America. He knows he cant win using force on force. However he has taken a page out of Ho Che Mihn's book on how to defeat the Americans. We need in the future to minimize our footprint in Iraq and let them take resonsibility for thier destiny. Thats the bottom line.

Our soldiers are doing a yeomans job over there. However they can only control their part of the equation. The other elements of this war are economy, social and information managment. The Bush Administration has failed at making a bigger impact on those three.

 

[Greg Bell]

Uhh, that is very nearly the definition of defeatist.

As long as there are Americans in Iraq there will be Islamic fundamentalists in Iraq seeking to kill American Soldiers. Osama wants a victory over America.

Well, just what do you think Osama is going to call running America out of Iraq? He, all along, has called us a paper tiger. Your proposal just proves he was right--and will encourage ever more brazen terrorist attacks. Lets say this is 2009, and Kerry is president (or Hillary). Do you really think she will have the stomach to attack Iraq if they launch terror attacks on the U.S.? Not no but hell no. Surrendering will put us in a worse position than our shameful exit from Vietnam. The Vietnamese had no interest in attacking us here. We can't just pull up stakes---they are going to follow us home.

 

[Redworm]

We can't just pull up stakes---they are going to follow us home.

That is the biggest fear mongering phrase of the decade. They're going to follow us home... Because they have no intention of laucnhing attacks on US soil as long as we're in Iraq right? They're too "busy"? Have we forgotten that the main idea behind a terrorist organization's structure is indepenant cells unaffected by each other? How does killing a bunch of guys in Iraq keeps Osama's suicide bombers off our soil?

It doesn't. Leaving Iraq will be bad for Iraq, no doubt, but to think that it's going to inspire them to hop on boats and sail right on over here is a ploy to inspire fear, nothing more. How hard is it to understand that Osama has no intention of conquering the world; they just want our asses out of their homes. He's not some evil mastermind hiding in his secret lair surrounded by ninjas and robots, there is no American Hero on his way to kick his ass, there's no evil plot to take over the world.

We made a huge mess of that country that never should have been made. So far we've caused more problems that we've solved and we forced a "liberation" on people that obviously were not motivated enough to do it on their own. We installed a government for them, pre selected all their leaders and gave them a handful to choose from and this is democracy? Please. We screwed that country over by going there in the first place but at this point it should be up to the people. If they want us there, then we stay until their forces can take care of things. If they don't want us there than we leave and get our noses out of the middle east and deal without own oil problems because they're OUR fault, not the fault of the brown people around the world.

We don't belong there and we certainly don't have the right to force our version of society on them. They don't want McDonalds or Ford pickups. Just because Americans do doesn't mean the rest of the world must. This is the arrogance that makes the rest of the world hate us. Those that don't care what the rest of the world think are what's wrong with America's foreign policy.

 

[Camp David]

How does killing a bunch of guys in Iraq keeps Osama's suicide bombers off our soil?

The facts since 09/11/01 suggest that such action does in fact prevent terror here in the homeland; Bush's policy is sound and our war against terror in Iraq and Afghanistan does prevent domestic terror.

Despite all the criticism of the president you can not dispute the fact that he has prevented further acts of terrorism here in this country since 09/11/01... the precise reason for our war. Thus the War on Terror becomes a resounding success. The price, however, is eternal vigilance.

We already knew that.

 

[Redworm]

The facts since 09/11/01 suggest that such action does in fact prevent terror here in the homeland; Bush's policy is sound and our war against terror in Iraq and Afghanistan does prevent domestic terror.

My trombone keeps elephants out of my front yard. Want proof? There are no elephants in my front yard, are there?

None of the 9/11 hijackers came from Iraq. We're in the wrong ****ing country to play line.

Despite all the criticism of the president you can not dispute the fact that he has prevented further acts of terrorism here in this country since 09/11/01... the precise reason for our war. Thus the War on Terror becomes a resounding success. The price, however, is eternal vigilance.

We already knew that.

Yes, we can dispute that day in and day out.

The War on Terror is about as effective at wasting money and giving the government more power, just like the last "war on" something.

 

[invention_45]

Bush's policy is sound and our war against terror in Iraq and Afghanistan does prevent domestic terror.

Maybe it's more accurate to say that it became serious after 9/11, after the horse was already out of the barn.

 

[stevelyn]

We either need to cr@p or get off the pot and start fighting ruthelessly to win. There is absolutely no reason that trash like al Sadr and the other troublemakers should still be sucking air and getting tv time. Turn our head hunters loose and go after them.
If they use mosques as refuges, too "effin" bad it's now a military target and becomes a smoking hole.

Running a war like boy scout jamboree is a sure recipe for defeat.

 

[Greg Bell]

That is the biggest fear mongering phrase of the decade. They're going to follow us home... Because they have no intention of laucnhing attacks on US soil as long as we're in Iraq right? They're too "busy"? Have we forgotten that the main idea behind a terrorist organization's structure is indepenant cells unaffected by each other? How does killing a bunch of guys in Iraq keeps Osama's suicide bombers off our soil?

A big part of what motivates them is the perception that we are a "paper tiger." They think that a democracy like ours does not have the stomach to stay in it for the long haul. Their planners know, and readily admit, that if we choose to, we could wipe them off the map. They count on our squeamishness.

It is silly to think that our more aggressive posture towards terror hasn't protected us. You seriously believe that, if they could, they wouldn't have done something else since 9/11? They constantly threaten us, but can't seem to pull it off. Of course, it will happen eventually, but it is absurd to think that the fact that Osama now eats a lot more Cliff bars and takes fewer baths hasn't helped.

It doesn't. Leaving Iraq will be bad for Iraq, no doubt, but to think that it's going to inspire them to hop on boats and sail right on over here is a ploy to inspire fear, nothing more

It was meant to inspire fear, but it is no ploy. That is exactly what happened after the Somalia debacle.

How hard is it to understand that Osama has no intention of conquering the world; they just want our asses out of their homes. He's not some evil mastermind hiding in his secret lair surrounded by ninjas and robots, there is no American Hero on his way to kick his ass, there's no evil plot to take over the world.

Unfortunately, that facile analysis of his motivations shows a complete misunderstanding of his goals. Do you really think he would quit if we left the middle east? First of all, that is going to happen. Second, what about Israel? Do we simply abandon them?

If they don't want us there than we leave and get our noses out of the middle east and deal without own oil problems because they're OUR fault, not the fault of the brown people around the world.

All-right, now I see where you are coming from.

We don't belong there and we certainly don't have the right to force our version of society on them.

That statement is totally devoid of useful content.

They don't want McDonalds or Ford pickups. Just because Americans do doesn't mean the rest of the world must. This is the arrogance that makes the rest of the world hate us

.

A lot of things make the world hate us. The prime motivation is bitterness over the perceived inequity of our being the world's lone superpower. In short, they are jealous. Combine that with opportunist nations like China and Russia (and France, etc) who want to position themselves as power-brokers, and you find that it is in a lot of people's interest that we are hated. I promise you, they don't hate Ford Pickups that much.

 

[Redworm]

A big part of what motivates them is the perception that we are a "paper tiger." They think that a democracy like ours does not have the stomach to stay in it for the long haul. Their planners know, and readily admit, that if we choose to, we could wipe them off the map. They count on our squeamishness.

It is silly to think that our more aggressive posture towards terror hasn't protected us. You seriously believe that, if they could, they wouldn't have done something else since 9/11? They constantly threaten us, but can't seem to pull it off. Of course, it will happen eventually, but it is absurd to think that the fact that Osama now eats a lot more Cliff bars and takes fewer baths hasn't helped.

christ on a cracker IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11

There is nothing to prove that anything has prevented an attack. It's fear, nothing more. Fear used to give the government more control, more power. Fear used to make the public think that it needs big ole Uncle Sam to kill all the brown people so we can have our SUVs and Big Macs.

Unfortunately, that facile analysis of his motivations shows a complete misunderstanding of his goals. Do you really think he would quit if we left the middle east? First of all, that is going to happen. Second, what about Israel? Do we simply abandon them?

OSAMA IS NOT IN IRAQ. Just because all those middle easterners have the same skin tone and pray in the same direction does not mean they're all involved in the same plots.

Yes, abandon Israel. Let them deal with their own problems.

That statement is totally devoid of useful content.

No more or less than the statement "They'll follow us home."

We don't have the right to force our society on them. What if they don't want democracy? What if they don't want our version of freedom? What if they don't want our version of capitalism? What if they don't want SUVs and Big Macs and HDTV? It's none of our business.

A lot of things make the world hate us. The prime motivation is bitterness over the perceived inequity of our being the world's lone superpower. In short, they are jealous. Combine that with opportunist nations like China and Russia (and France, etc) who want to position themselves as power-brokers, and you find that it is in a lot of people's interest that we are hated. I promise you, they don't hate Ford Pickups that much.

The main thing that makes the world hate us is American arrogance. The idea that Americans hold that since we think ourselves the best country in the world that we must make every other country just like us. We must force our ideals on everyone else and be the biggest hypocrites the world has ever seen.

It's not jealousy, it's a desire to be left the **** alone.

They may not hate Ford pickups but that doesn't mean we have the right to tell them they have to have them to be "free" or happy.

 

[rem33]

Hey Redworm I've been reading several of your posts and gotta question for ya.

Is there anything about America you do like? Past or present?

 

[ITEOTWAWKI]

Running a war like boy scout jamboree is a sure recipe for defeat.

So does declaring war in multiple fronts, none of them having anything to do with the 9/11.

A lot of things make the world hate us. The prime motivation is bitterness over the perceived inequity of our being the world's lone superpower. In short, they are jealous.

Wow. So people just wake up in the morning, angry at living in a 3rd world crap-hole, and determined as hell to take our fords and bigmacs? Riiiight... Maybe us blowing up their friends, family, churches & schools may have had something to do with a person being willing to kiss their family goodbye and DIE for the CHANCE at striking at an obviously superior military force.

There's getting to be two more types of people in the world. Those who believe that people can only be pushed so far, and those who only think that people do the things they do because they're bored, jealous, or my personal favorite, hate our freedom. Gag me with my own vomit :barf:

 

[Eghad]

attack Iraq if they launch terror attacks on the U.S.?

That same flaw in thinking is what has us in Iraq. The Terrorist attack in 2003 was launched from Afghanistan. The terrorist attacks in Britian were home grown folks.

Islamic fundamentalism has no nation or defined borders. How do you use conventional warefare to fight that?

Instead of having closure with Afghanistan the administration started a war with Iraq. Now violence is increasing in Afghanistan. Plus the Taliban has a new refuge in Pakistan that we cant touch. To put the icing on the cake Pakistan has signed a truce with them.

Now with the war in Iraq we have created the biggest Islamic fundamentalist training camp in the world complete with allies for these terrorists. There is no evidence that Iraq was linked to the 2003 attacks. There is speculation, even Bush has had to admit that the evidence isnt there.

Bush himself is claiming that there will be more terrorist attacks on American in his campaign to keep the Republicans in office.

Our soldiers beat the snot out of the North Vietnamese Army yet who ended up leaving? The same line of thinking is present in this administration that painted us into a corner there seems to be taking hold. I have never advocated leaving Iraq, I have advocated that we need to revise the way we do business there and come up with a new way to fight the fundamentalists. We will not defeat the fundamentalists by killing folks and blowing things up.