what is wrong with winchester?

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kristop64089

New member
I am looking to buy a home defense shotgun. I want a Black short barrel, buttstock. I like the Winchester defender (plus I have two older 12 ga wins)
But, I also like the Mossberg 500. What are the pros and cons of the 2 weighed against each other?
 
Id go with an 870.

Of the two mentioned, the Mossberg is the clear winner. The Winchester, while a nice bird gun, simply is not up to the task of hard use. The receivers are soft and prone to damage, the so called "speed pump" rotary bolt is somewhat fragile, and overall, the gun is not a working gun.
 
Both are good, solid guns, well suited for home defense use. However, there are a lot more after market parts around for the Mossberg.
 
My experience as a pro gunsmith was, the Winchester was a better built, better quality gun, with less problems than the Mossberg.

Both guns have cast aluminum receivers with stamped and plastic internal parts.

There are about the same amount of after-market accessories available for both, but the Mossberg has a lot more FACTORY options available.

Next, Winchester is out of business, and the Model 1300 is no longer being made.

To choose between the Mossberg and the Winchester, handle both guns and choose the one you like the best as far as look and feel. Either will last you a lifetime with a little care.

Last, as usual, my personal preference is for the Remington 870, which has a forged and milled steel receiver, and heavy-duty steel internal parts.
The 870 will FAR outlast either the Mossberg or Winchester, will go a lot longer without any problems or broken parts, and if a shotgun accessory is made, it's made for the 870 so you have a MUCH larger selection.
 
Yes, in a number of versions.

In the Express line, there's the Express 18" synthetic with or without a factory magazine extender.
These are 18" barreled, black synthetic stock, black finish guns with a bead front sight and a Cylinder Bore choke.

There's a new Tactical shotgun series of black finished guns with tactical stocks.

In a more expensive gun, there's the new 870 Magnum Marine XCS.
The standard Magnum Marine has a satin nickel finish, but the new XCS is all black and super durable.
It also has a 18" barrel, black stock, and the super-tough black XCS finish.

Here's a link where you can download Remington's 2007 shotgun catalog showing the commercial 870's:
Look down the page to the listing on which gun catalog to see, NOT the listings on the right side of the page.
http://www.remington.com/products/2007_new_products/

Also, look at the Tactical series on the same listing.

In the top of the line, there's the more expensive Remington 870P Police guns.
These come in a wide range of options including 18" or 20" barrels, with or without extended magazines, bead, rifle, or ghost ring sights, a variety of black stocks some with internal magazines that hold 4 spare rounds, and the Remington R3 super recoil pad.

The Police guns are a little harder to get, and cost more, but are the best pump gun made by far.
http://www.remingtonle.com/

Even the Express guns are a definite step up from the Mossberg or Winchester, and the Police guns are the absolute Cadillac of defense pump guns.
 
On this purchase cost is an issue. I don't want to spend over 250. I am willing to buy a used gun, but, all that i am seeing are pretty abused.

I am fairly mechanicaly inclined. and I wonder...the plastic parts you speak of in Mossberg/winchester, are they user servicable?

With winchester out of buisness, are they going to continue to offer aftermarket parts? All of my othe SG's are winnies(older versions) and they have never failed me. That's were my gut is leading me, nothing against remingtons, but for what I want I think they are to much money.
 
You can get an 870 Express for under 250, and used police trade in 870 Wingmasters and Polices all day long for 150-250. With an 870, you will get a far better gun than either the Winchester of the Mossberg.
 
What i've been seeing for that price range have a fair amount of wear to them, with that being said with all the outer wear i Worry about inner wear
 
I like my 1300's, I have 3 of them. A 26" bird gun and two Defenders. I like them enough that I'll probably buy more, and when I get sick of buying them I'll get a couple FN police shotguns because they're the same gun with a defferent name. I like the way they shoot, I like the way they work, and I know how to take them apart and put them back together again. Parts are available, but some are very difficult to find at a reasonable price. Barrels are a good example of a hard to find part. I got all my 1300's for under $200 each.

I've had a 20ga 870 since I was a kid, and it's a fine gun too, but I outgrew the 20ga a while ago. I like my 1300's a whole lot, but I sure wouldn't refuse an 870 if someone handed one to me. If they handed me a Mossberg, I'd hand it back. Every mossberg I've ever touched has made me cringe, I just can't stand them. :barf:

For a HD gun, my first choice would be a 1300 or FN, followed by an 870, followed by a Benelli Nova, although I dislike the fact that you can't get OEM hi-cap magazines or extensions for them. Remington makes a fine gun, with a zillion aftermarket parts and accessories, and they're relatively cheap.
 
Would 365 +18(shipping) + 25(ffl) =$408 be to much? for a NIB 18" synthetic 870(7 rndr) be to much?
Click to expand...

I don't know why you'd pay $365 when Bud's Gun Shop has them for $295. Unless you're talking about the one with the Knoxx stock, but I'd skip the pistol grip if I were you. And you should at least look locally before you order online, a local dealer may be close in price.

Oh, and by the way, the thing that originally drew me to the Defender over the 18" 870 was the one-piece magazine tube. All the Remington models, including the Police models, have an extension rather than a longer tube. I prefer the Winchester design.
 
Don't worry about getting the remington so much.

I have used a few mossbergs (maverick 88, 500a and 590), a couple remingtons, and a winchester and I have to say that they are all fine guns.

Yes the 500 has *gasp* an aluminum reciever and some *gasp* plastic parts. Look, if the aluminum and plastic hindered the gun so much, why do so many gun manufacturers use it? Mossberg put plastic where is was economical and safe to do so, and they put steel where is counts. The aluminum reciever is of little consequence other than making a lighter gun. You must realize that in a pump-action, the reciever isn't getting stressed like it would be in a semi-auto.

I love my 500a and I would trust my life to it. It is a fine gun.

If you're a winchester man, and you find one that suits you and the price is right, go for it. You'll have a gun that you know how to operate if you're under stress.

Don't let the remington guys sway you too much; if you want a good HD gun, go with what you're comfortable with, and what you can afford: Winchester defender

If you want to go out and put 500,000 rounds of 3" buckshot loads through your gun while you bang your trigger guard, safety, and reciever on rocks all day: Go with the remington. that extra 10 ounces of steel makes the gun indestructible!!!!!:rolleyes:
 
iliysdad: I'm curious. Other than your own opinion (which I'm not saying is necessarily invalid), anecdotal experience and/or hearsay, do you have any independent, objective and empirical evidence to support your assertions that the Winchester 1300 has "prone to damage" receivers- prone to damage, how so?,and a "fragile" Speed Pump rotary bolt- fragile, how so?

If so, please advise. Otherwise, I'm going to shake out a dash of "When It Rains, It Pours" :D .
 
Personally, I have witnessed the attempted use of the 1200/1300 in LE use, and it fails every time. Many departments, including the one I work for, bought them because they were cheaper. After the uses and abuse of a police shotgun, I have witnessed receiver cracks, pure breakages, and lots of broken bolts.

I think the 1200/1300 is a damn fine bird gun, but it is simply outclassed by Remington, and to a lesser extent Mossberg.
 
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