What is the wave of the future for military individual weapons?

[Mr. Pub]

How about a weapon that attaches to the underside of your forearm with two barrels. One for .223, the other for 20mm. These would be fed by a backpack carrying the ammunition via a concealed belt, like a helicopter gun uses.

Aiming would be done through electronic sights in your helmet.

Of course you would also have to be equipped with a bullet proof body suit. And your transportation would be a jet ski, jet rider that could fly 10-20 feet off the ground so your could cruise over minefields etc.



[This message has been edited by Mr. Pub (edited August 29, 2000).]

 

[Ivanhoe]

There's a time for evolution, and a time for revolution. After a revolutionary development, things evolve until the point of diminishing returns, at which progress stalls until another quantum leap occurs. I believe autoloading rifles are about 2/3 of the way down the current evolutionary path. We still need some basic refinements (ergonomics, basic optics, advanced materials for strength, weight, durability issues). Maybe caseless ammo and/or electrical ignition will provide a 10% improvement that will be worth the trouble, but neither is a quantum leap.

One idea for an evolutionary step; two-trigger lockwork, where the front trigger has about 6 lb pull and activates the full-auto or burst mode, and the rear trigger is about 3 lb and activates semi-auto mode. Nice, simple low-stress mechanicals, and could allow John Q. Grunt to put more rounds on target without wasting time or ammo, which is what the game is all about.

Another idea (stolen shamelessly from Stoner); have the issue rifle be able to feed from the same disintegrating link belt as the squad LMG, as well as box or drum magazines.

I concur on the "point-n-shoot" interface. Just like in fighter aircraft, the hardware should make it easier on the operator, not harder. However, if electronics are made rugged and reliable, I have no problem with their use as long as iron backups are retained.

Jeff, grenadiers might carry a lightweight subgun (in .45 ACP, or maybe the 5.7mm Wundersnot) along with their 40mm. I believe we could have a little 5 lb subgun that would give the guy 100 meters effectiveness (decent folding/telescoping stock and good sights and trigger, of course). Total loadout weight is an issue, of course, but with our trend towards a 15,000+ man division slice backing about 9 rifle companies, we have to accept that certain MOSes will require having a number of Very Big Dudes.



[This message has been edited by Ivanhoe (edited August 30, 2000).]

 

[Bruegger]

Jeff asked "When would you leave the tripod of your medium machine gun at home?"

I wouldn't - as you say, you're reducing the effectiveness of the weapon system dramatically. What I meant was, in my opinion, you really should have a 3-man team for a medium MG because you need to carry the tripod, T&E, spare barrel, bbl bag, MG ammo, personal weapons, ammo and equipment, etc which is too much for 2 men to schlep around *and remain effective*. But if you DID ditch the T&E and tripod, you could get away with a 2-man team because you could carry more ammo. I know that you can carry 100+ lbs of gear for 20 miles each day (been there, done that), but that's a good way to render yourself ineffective.

I also agree with your assessment that crew served weapons have to have priority of manning - I believe that the MG is the most important weapon on the battlefield at the BN level.

EchoFiveMike - Have you used the M240G? That thing blows the doors off of the M60, which in my personal opinion is a piece of crap. Max effective range = 1800 m, Cyclic rate = 1200 RPM. Made by FN - basically the SAW on steroids. Good point on the buckshot rounds, BTW.

Has anyone seen the 50mm mortars the UK uses? No bipod at all, just a sling that you step on to hold the tube stable. There's a line painted down the back for aiming and a dial on the side with a level on it that you set for range. Good thing to have at the squad level for sending some WP/smokes down range.

 

[STLRN]

For the M240G

Weights/Measurements
In order to hit a target at 1800 you need the M122 and the Flex mount

Total system weight (gun and
tripod complete) .......................... 45.6 pounds
Weight of machine gun ..................... 25.6 pounds
Weight of barrel ............................. 6.6 pounds
Weight of spare barrel case,
complete with spare barrel
and all SL-3 components ................. 12.90 pounds
Weight of tripod, complete
with flex-mount including
T&E mechanism ........................... 20 pounds
Length of machine gun ........................ 49 inches
Height of machine gun
on tripod ....................................17 inches
Muzzle velocity .................. 2,800 feet per second
Rifling .................... Four grooves with a uniform
right hand twist,
one turn in 12 inches
Ranges
Maximum ................................. 3,725 meters
Maximum effective ........................ 1,800 meters
Grazing fire ................................. 600 meters
Ammunition
Caliber ..................................7.62 millimeter
Types in use ......................... Ball, tracer, blank,
dummy, and armor-piercing
Basic allowance per gun ..................... 400 rounds
Weight of a 100 round
assault pack (2 per can) ...................... 7 pounds
Rates of fire
Sustained ......................... 100 rounds per minute
fired in 6 to 8 round bursts
4 to 5 seconds between bursts
barrel change every 10 minutes
Rapid ............................ 200 rounds per minute
fired in 10 to 12 round bursts
2 to 3 seconds between bursts
with T&E mechanism ....................... 247 mils
Free gun ...................................... 996 mils
Limits of depression with
T&E mechanism ............................ 200 mils
Free gun ...................................... 996 mils
Limits of traverse (tripod mount):
Using traversing bar ................875 mils (425 left,
450 right)
On the traversing handwheel ................. 100 mils
Free gun ................................... 6400 mils

 

[ctdonath]

An OICW point I haven't seen discussed:

The designer may not have considered the sequence of events: 20mm fire would be used at a distance, probably using up that ammo, then switching to .223 as the target came close. This leaves the enormous 20mm component attached - large, heavy, and unremovable - precisely when it is least useful: dead weight if empty, friggin' dangerous if loaded, and giving significant inertia at a time requiring rapid & chaotic movement.

Either have the 20mm part separate, used deliberately when needed and simply dropped when not, or have a quick-release mechanism.

 

[EchoFiveMike]

****EchoFiveMike - Have you used the M240G? That thing blows the doors off of the M60, which in my personal opinion is a piece of crap. Max effective range = 1800 m, Cyclic rate = 1200 RPM. Made by FN - basically the SAW on steroids. Good point on the buckshot rounds, BTW.*****

My 60 was pretty good, of course, I'm a weapons maintainence junkie(not to say I clean it like the Corps wants, I cleaned it so it'd work) but yes, I have used the M240G. I was squad leader by that time and so didn't have to carry that dog. Weight is all towards the front and it has no handguard, so displacing is a real mightmare. Really good chance to burn the hell out of yourself. Good reliable gun though. Cyclic rate is more like 800-900rpm though, depends how you have the gas regulator set. It's a dedicated GPMG, where the M60E3 was more designed in the assault/ direct support role. As for the buckshot quote, we burned a bunch up before I left Lejeune(along with a bunch of really old Claymores), and I was not impressed.

***Has anyone seen the 50mm mortars the UK uses? No bipod at all, just a sling that you step on to hold the tube stable. There's a line painted down the back for aiming and a dial on the side with a level on it that you set for range. Good thing to have at the squad level for sending some WP/smokes down range.****

I've seen them. The British use it in place of a 40mm grenade launcher for the most part. You can use the M224 60mm company mortar in a similar fashion, it's heavier and has longer range,bigger shell, etc but a very similar set up. And we already field it. Smoke is good, but I'd rather be dropping HE on their heads, while my guys move up in defilade. Semper Fi...Ken

 

[Glamdring]

I think KE [kinetic energy--hand held rail guns] small arms will be produced eventually because they would give true limited Anti Aircraft defense ability. And if your using an electricity for "propellent" the main weight for ammo would be the projectile, allowing you to carry a LOT of ammo. So the weapon would be very small bore with hyper velocity projectile and high rate of fire.

Probably have cold launch RAP for anti armor and maybe anti aircraft use. And cold launch grenade launchers for indirect fire.

Communications and sensors will probably be integrated into some type of simple icon based system displayed on a helment or eye glass type HUD.