What is the Real Deal on the .380 cartridge?

hi dogger,
given some of today's mini-9 gun designs, i don't think there is any advantage to carrying a .380 over a 9mm. the most common .380 designs are straight blowback, and as you've covered, the recoil-to-performance ratio leaves alot to be desired.
more importantly, i think there needs to be a clear distinction between "killing" and "stopping". for a private citizen concerned with surviving a grave threat, the main objective of carrying a firearm should be to be able to stop the threat as soon as possible- while death is very often a result of a "stop", it is by no means a stated goal. the fact that the leo/salesrep used "more officers killed with..." as the main criteria for carrying a .380 seems to betray a general lack of understanding in this subject.
i think a good rule to follow would be to carry as much gun as you can carry comfortably, and shoot proficiently with. since you choose to carry in your pocket (not what i'd recommend), the p232 may be the gun that meets that criteria for you. if that's the case, god bless and keep packing! while i feel personally that .380 is a bad choice in light of the many mini-9s that compete in size and weight, if you can carry, draw and fire that .380 better than you can a more powerful gun, i'm not about to say you're wrong about anything.
have a safe and happy new year!!
joe

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www.skdtac.com
tactical accessories for self-defense and le


[This message has been edited by skdtac (edited December 31, 1999).]
 
Effectively no difference between a .380 and 9mm, depending on the load? Well of course it depends on the load. Rarely do .380 loadings exceed 95 grain bullets. I personally wouldn't carry a 9mm with less than a 124 grain bullet, and I prefer to go even heavier than that (135 or 147).

You make some rather broad assumptions and choose to ignore, for the sake of your argument, some very significant factors like bullet weight and design.

While the .380 and 9mm share bullet diameters, the 9mm has much more wounding potential not through increased velocity, but through the use of heavier bullets.
 
I agree with skdtac - a .380 is probably about as likely to KILL as many calibers are, but probably less likely to stop the threat once he's hit. A .22 will kill too, and kills many, but doesn't STOP many people from carrying out their nefarious deeds.

I have a .380 - a CZ-83 which is the best .380 I've ever owned - it's always reliable for me - but I'll stick with my Glock 20 when the excrement hits the rotating impeller.

Tom



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Don't Tread on Me

Why 10mm beats .45 ACP . . .
www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/10/10mm-advoc.htm
 
Keith, about the 380 vs. 9mm: the one difference I can think of is that the 9mm will make more impressive powder burns on your assailant if employed properly at close range!

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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
 
Well, as has been said, shot placement is more important than bullet size, or velocity, or any other sort of minutiae. A .50 AE in the arm isn't likely to do much good. Even a .22 short in the head or the heart will kill though. At any rate, i look at it this way: A .22 in the hand beats a .45 left at home any day of the week. Someone goes out and buys a nice shiny new Springfeild longslide, and carries it. in a few weeks, he is so bothered by this epitome of the massive handgun that he starts thinking "I won't need it today," and starts leaving it at home. on the other hand, he could get himself an "inexpensive" phoenix arms HP-22. It's small, relatively light, and ammo for it is cheap enough that he can practice enough to put all the rounds into the upper torso of Mr. Bad Ass.

As for stopping power, for most BG's, the sight of a gun is enough stopping power. For the rest, they are probably druggies. And with those folks, a minuteman ICBM would be hard put to stop them efficiently.

I guess the point i'm trying to make here is that skill is a much better defender than bullet size and power are.

Of course there are allways the oddballs. I once knew a feller whose favorite carry gun was a ruger single six, in .22 mag. Go figure.
 
I work at a local County Hospital, that also
houses the county morgue. Lots of stiffs are
brought in all the time, done in by those .22,.25,.32,.380, and the occasional 9mm.
What does this tell us?
That smaller, cheaper guns, using smaller, cheaper ammo are being used alot.
Does that mean we want to carry or rely on them?
You can, but most of the time the bodies have
lots of holes.
I think it's better to make one big hole.
 
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