what is the problem with 223?

C

checkmyswag

New member
I am this close (holding fingers half inch apart) from buying a Mini-14.

Super reliable. Reasonably accurate (now). 20 round mags available for reasonable price (now).

About the only thing stopping me is the 223 being considered such an underperformed.

On the battlefield is the problem the FMJ bullets? If they were shooting soft or hollow points would this be an issue? Same w hunting...or is the small light bullet just not enough for deer?

So then I consider the mini-30 but then I have less range and bullet availability. Then there is the 6.8 which sounds great but how widely available is this now and in the future?
 
I just bought a mini 14 about an hour ago. Just buy it, you won't regret it. even if you do, they hold their value so you wouldn't lose much on it.

As far as less range for the mini 30, it will shoot out to 300 yards just as easily as the .223. Either one will be fun.

I honestly purchased the mini 14 as a fun gun to shoot at the range. I have more accurate and more powerful firearms, the mini 14 is filling my need for a range toy/truck gun.
 
Hiya Swag,

There really isn't a problem with the .223, as long as its used within the confines of its purpose. The round was developed as an anti-personel ammunition. Which it does with varying degrees of success. Some will argue but I say it does well in this role.

For deer hunting, I would say it is a minimum. I hunt deer with it at times, and have had no issues. I use a 75 grain soft nose. Also, I would not use it at any range over 200 yards. I'm sure I will get flamed for even saying I hunt with it.

If thats your only intent for the rifle is deer hunting, I would say you can do better. If, like many of us, cash is tight and you are looking for one rifle to fulfill multiple roles for the time being, I say its a pretty good choice. The 6.8 would be a better round for deer hunting, in my opinion, but you are right. Ammo availability at this time is a little hit and miss.

Also if you like the Mini platform, have a look at a Mini thirty. The 7.62x39 performs extremely comparable to the 30-30 and no-one can argue the effectiveness on deer for that.

Hope it helps.
BlackJack
 
I once had a pig run 10yds after being shot with one, I was so wore out LOL.

Kept within realistic ranges, there's not a thing wrong with it
 
BlackJackID said:
For deer hunting, I would say it is a minimum. I hunt deer with it at times, and have had no issues. I use a 75 grain soft nose. Also, I would not use it at any range over 200 yards. I'm sure I will get flamed for even saying I hunt with it.
Click to expand...

I know for a fact the 60 grain Nosler Partition and the Speer 70 grain work well too. I've got a couple of boxes of Speer 55 grain TBBC. I have't killed anything with them yet, but I'm sure they'll work.

Don't worry about the nay sayers BlackJack, the only people who say the .223, .22-250, etc won't work on hogs and deer with the right bullet, are ones who have never tried it.
 
"underperformed" (sp)...compared to what, and for what purpose?

IMO, it can't be beat for an inexpensive, highly accurate target round out to it's intended range (600 or so), and there are guys that love a challenge that shoot VLD's out further than that. Gotta be really good to dope the wind with that caliber at those ranges...

Obviously, with the Mini you're not planning on long range target. Small game, mid-range target, or plinking soda cans it can't be beat.

The Mini-30 as you say would also be a viable choice. Ammo selection really isn't as limited as you think. Federal, Hornady, Winchester, Remington and others make soft points for hunting- and you can always bang cheap Wolf through it if the mood hits. For inside 200 yards, that would be my choice for hunting.

Beyond 200 yards, the 6.8 SPC would be my choice. Ammo is pricier...but that round has a lot of energy.
 
Well said.

Pick the right rounds which the Military cannot do and it works at least decently.

Keep in mind the Miltary is totally conflicted in what it needs. They want barrier penetration (doors, vehicles, helmets and personal armor) and they still want to kill people (after or during).
Something has to give, so a round that would kill and unarmored opponent as we have been fighting the last (10 years now, sheese) was not on the list.
there are some rounds out now that do better (70 something grain) for distance and lethality. Military will put out a lot of BS rather than simply admit its totally contradictory. They do not want to go with a pure anti personal round.

Hiya Swag,

There really isn't a problem with the .223, as long as its used within the confines of its purpose. The round was developed as an anti-personel ammunition. Which it does with varying degrees of success. Some will argue but I say it does well in this role.

For deer hunting, I would say it is a minimum. I hunt deer with it at times, and have had no issues. I use a 75 grain soft nose. Also, I would not use it at any range over 200 yards. I'm sure I will get flamed for even saying I hunt with it.

If thats your only intent for the rifle is deer hunting, I would say you can do better. If, like many of us, cash is tight and you are looking for one rifle to fulfill multiple roles for the time being, I say its a pretty good choice. The 6.8 would be a better round for deer hunting, in my opinion, but you are right. Ammo availability at this time is a little hit and miss.

Also if you like the Mini platform, have a look at a Mini thirty. The 7.62x39 performs extremely comparable to the 30-30 and no-one can argue the effectiveness on deer for that.

Hope it helps.
BlackJack
Click to expand...
 
I am this close (holding fingers half inch apart) from buying a Mini-14.

Buy it!:
Light, accurate, fun to shoot... ammo is cheap and maxed out within 150 -200yards inside that you can hunt Deer with one. It's the classic example of a Range rifle. :D
 
Last edited:
I just got back from hunting in West Virginia with my .223. I use it for short, can't see far, got to be quick places. I use 55 grain hollow points with a filler(Factory ammo) and it works well. Not a lot of entrance/exit damage, but in between a whole lot of organ damage. I like to stay under 100 yards with that ammo and it has worked well for me.
 
Nothing wrong with .223

Actually the .mil is finally stepping up their game

The marines have adopted the MK.318 SOSTwhich does an excellent job at fragmenting

The army now has the M855A1 that offers decent penetration and decent terminal ballistics.

The seals have adopted the 5.56 optimized which uses the Barnes TSX 70gr bullet, it reliably expands at about the 1.8" mark and expands to a .50 size bullet. It expands down to 1900fps making it perfect for SBR's.

Theres also the 77gr SMK used by marksmen that does excellent job at terminal ballistics.

If you use the right bullet(not M855 or M193) the .223 is a highly lethal round
 
Last edited:
I'm not going to any battlefield, so I'm unconcerned about how any cartridge performs there. :D

The .223 is a great varmint round. With proper bullet selection and being picky about the shot, it'll work on deer. Fine target load and relatively inexpensive compared to other ammo.

I define "defense" with any rifle as being 99% likely to be within fifty yards or less. At that distance, about any load of whatever sort would work just fine.

It's not the be-all and end-all, by a long shot, but it's a great little medium-power cartridge.
 
Art, has the "scooby" on this thread. And if the OP really wants an accurate .223 auto there are many that are better than the mini.... (wow that sounds like a rhyme). But even if the mini ain't the best .223 auto, it sure is fun to shoot, just don't count on hittin much past a hundred with consistancy.;)
 
178yds is the about the longest shot that I can possibly take in my hunting area and its still plenty good at that range,
my favorite features are that you can watch a cartridge go in the chamber in the dimmest light.. you can pull the bolt back a little and feel the round if you want...in pitch blackness, you can feel if the bolt face is locked into battery fully...I personally prefer its safety. These are great advantages at night over other semi autos, imo

I don't care much for the fireball, and the rock in magazine
 
The only thing that turns me off about the 223 is that it's touted as the end-all, be-all by all the Black Rifle Operator Wanna-be's.

Why that bothers me, I don't know.

From a objective standpoint, there's nothing wrong with the round. For me, there are other rounds that do the things that I want to do better than the 223 so I wouldn't buy one for that reason either.

If I had one, I'd use it and I'm sure it would do whatever (reasonable) job I asked, just like the ones I chose instead.
 
What problem?

I was not aware it had a problem.

All caliber's have their use. It's only when people put unrealistic expectations that it falls short.
 
Hooligan you must not be very familiar with the new minis. I must ask have you ever shot one to test your theory of under 100 yards only? I just got back this afternoon from a yote hunt with my nephew who brought his ar. The mini was just as accurate as his AR as well as my own AR. center punched three yotes between 250-300 yards. Shot several magazines at a car wheel at around 400 yards with consistent pings. I have an AR DPMS as well, but the mini will perform round to round with the AR and most likely any semi 223 within its price range. The only point the mini is lacking against the AR is magazine operation and the price of magazines.
 
Last edited:
Even the early Minis were reliable for putting the first shot or two in the point of aim, same as the day/week/month before. Plenty good for hunting. Just not good enough after the third shot or thereabouts for tight groups on paper.

For hunting, defense or plinking, no problem.

I traded in and out of four of the silly things. Had a ball. Did in a few coyotes and a bunch of jackrabbits. A K4 on top put me in business, really easily.
 
Who said there was a problem with the .223? My mini shoots MOA and its a 580 series skinny barrel with accustrut. No more shot stringing. Used it to kill 2 doe's so far with 65gr. Gameking bullets. If there is a problem its peoples perception of the .223. The new mini-14/30's are far and away better rifles than the previous rifles were.

Bullet selection,shot placement and knowing your limitations. :D
 
Yeah some shoot well, but 11/2 moa isn't what I call accurate, and that's probably saying alot for the bulk of them.
Yes I had one for hree years, but my Colt AR15 Carbine out shot it everytime, so it didn't get much play unless I bought a case of .223 ammo and had friends who liked to shoot it.
You could hit a wheel at 400 yds with a .22 pistol with enough ammo and practice so that's not a great feat.;)

However if you get one of those factory "Mini's" to shoot less than MOA regularly, Print That!!!:cool:
 
here's mine...

I took my Mini to the range this past weekend as it's been sitting in the back of the safe getting little attention. These are great ranch rifles, 100 yards and under, they are by no means a modern battle field equivalent to a AR15. It's soft shooting and you can buy one used for about ~$400, accuracy is "moment of basketball" with iron sites.

Here's a pic of mine, it's an early '90s stainless Police and Military "GB" model w/ bayonet lug and flash hider; former AZ police gun and a little more unusual than the normal Mini. The Mini is the Bermuda Regiments primary firearm. :rolleyes:

IMG_0975.jpg
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top