What is the best .223 powder (in your experience)?

No one mentioned BLC2

I finally found Varget the other day after looking for 3 months. I found it in a obscure, small gun shop, in the middle of nowhere. That powder is hard to come by around here.

Can't wait to try it out on my 75g pills
 
hihrolls- When I started shooting the 223, I had the Savage Edge, Used same load to a tee- 25.5 Varget,60 Gn A Max, 2.29 COl 7 1/2 primers. Groups were good ( so I thought). Picked up another 223 ( FVSS ), same load-Groups were good. Got a pack of CCI BR4- After running them through the chrony ( Same load just CCI primrs) My groups went to-well One hole, MV went up over 100 FPS. I should not have said JUNK-sorry for that- I will say inferior to CCI.
I now play a game with 2 or 3 others at the range. We take 9MM case and super glue them standing up to a board- 3 across and 3 up and down. We play tic tac toe now at 100 yards shooting the primers out of them.
As i said- I have given that load to many- Short of them messing with the COL, they now use that same load in their rifles as well. It just seems to be the sweet spot in many rifles.- The whole thing came together when I got rid of 7 1/2 primers and went to CCI.
 
Nice

Cartridge: .223/ 5.56
Powder: BENCHMARK
Date Loaded: 15-Sep
Powder Weight: (gr) 24.5
Load Data Source: Hodgdon
Primer Brand: CCI
Bullet Brand: Hornady
Primer Type: No. 41
Bullet Type: Z-Max
COL: 2.21
Bullet Weight: (gr) : 50
Speed (fps): N/A
Rifle: S&W M&P 15 Carbine 16" barrel
Rifling: 1/9, 6 groove
Notes:- 100 Rds. Cycled great, l good groups Powder metered well, too
 
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For velocity H335
For ground squirrels Blue Dot
For 100 yard groups Blue Dot
For 200 yard groups, stick powder
 
The powder that works best for my 69, 77 and 80gr bullets is Varget
( ADI AR2208 is Varget with a different manufacturer label ( ADI makes it ))
( 20 and 16 inch barrels with 1/7 and 1/9 twist )
I have heard the 55gr bullets like a faster powder around the burn
rate of IMR 4895 ( use a couple of burn rate charts, they vary )
You might retry CFE with a Magnum primer, I have seen many 223s that
get an incomplete burn with a standard primer and when a magnum primer
is used it works very well and burns clean ( mainly in shorter barrels )

the best powder varies with barrel length and twist and bullet weight

a lot of people like a ball powder because it is easier to meter than a stick powder, I also weigh each powder charge and have found stick powders give
smaller patterns, so that is what I use most
 
There is no BEST powder and very few people actually test a wide range of propellants. Many people find something that works for them and they stop testing; sometimes claiming that their powder is "best". Keep in mind that some people believe that hitting a paper plate most of the time at 50 yards makes an "accurate" rifle. Others think shooting five rounds into a 1/4" bulls eye at 100 yards is just barely acceptable.

Truth be told, there are many powders which you can use to shoot very precise groups. But if you can't buy it, it can't be considered "best", can it? For example, at the moment, at least where I live, Varget is very difficult to find. But I did find a pound and tested it some time back. Turns out, for me at least, careful testing showed that it isn't any better than several other powders I have on hand which are much easier to buy. Consequently I stopped testing Varget.

Varget is a good powder and I might very well use it if I could find it regularly, but it isn't anything magic either even though some people (including a few of my fellow F/TR competitors) strongly recommend it. Since I can't find it easily, I use something else, usually Vihtavuori N-140 for the 80gr bullets I use in competition.

I would recommend selecting a reasonable powder that you can buy locally most of the time and/or find on-line at good prices most of the time. Chances are, you can find a load which will shoot very well if you test carefully. But unless you are prepared to do a great deal of scientific testing, you are unlikely to find the absolutely best powder.

I don't shoot a lot of light bullets, but I have had good results with 55gr bullets using H-4895 (not the same as IMR 4895).
 
Hey thanks for all the feedback everybody, some of this information will no doubt be referenced by myself in the future. As of right now I have one pound of IMR 4895 and one pound of H8208XBR. These were not so much highly informed choices as choices based on local availability. The older gentleman at my relatively local gun shop has been reloading for a long time, he's always a great source of knowledge whenever he happens to be in there, and he had good things to say about both of these powders for my purposes, noting that, as was mentioned here, the 4895 will give full load density and the 8208 is neither temperature nor position sensitive. Thanks.
 
Roadkill2228

H335 and the faster powders like N133 and N130 and even CFE223 get good results with bullets 55 grains and lighter in my experience.

The slower powders like H4895, IMR 4895, Varget, Reloader 15 and N140 shoot best with bullets heavier than 63 grains from my testing.

In the 55 to 63 grain bullet range, you really have to test for your own rifle but I find that most of the powders listed seem to lose a bit in that bullet weight range. Not a whole lot, but accuracy isn't as good as the other bullet weight ranges if you pick powders that are suited to the bullet weights.

You haven't mentioned the twist of your .223, just the bullet weights you are shooting. If you have a faster twist than 1:9 you might be able to increase your bullet weights and get good results with the slower powders. If your twist is 1:12, you probably should try some of the 52 or 53 grain match bullets because 55 is about at the limit for that twist.

I have a CZ Varmint bolt action with a 1:9 twist in a 24 inch barrel that shoots most accurately with 52 and 53 grain match bullets. Accuracy drops off just a bit with 55 grain bullets (I think it is a barrel preference rather than a general caliber characteristic based upon results others have published with different rifles.) Top 25 hand loads for my CZ are with Sierra #1400 53 grain SMKs, Sierra #1410 52 grain SMKs and Berger # 22408 52 grain bullets and averages 0.212 inch groups at 100 yards with the top 25 loads. It shoots best with VV N133, H335 and CFE223 with one load of N130. N133 has more loads in the top 25 than all the others combined.

I have a Les Baer .223 Super Varmint with a 1:8 twist and an 18 inch barrel that shoots 69 to 77 grain bullets best with the H4895, CFE223, Varget, Reloader 15 and N140, averaging 0.204 for 121 groups for its top 25 loads. N140 has more loads in the top 25 than all the others combined.

For some strange reason, CFE223 seems to work for both weight ranges, but most of the others don't. I can't explain that but the results speak for themselves and I have been pleased with CFE223. CFE also burns a lot cleaner than most of the other powders. VV powders burn almost as clean as CFE. The other powders listed leave a lot more burned products in the barrel by comparison.
 
I'll have to chime in here Road Kill,
If you are new to .223 Rem, Especally bolt rifles,
You are going to find a BUNCH of opinions,
And most of those are going to be about auto loaders...

The history of the .223 is a very light weight (25-30 grain) bullet with a lot of case volume behind it for the light bullet weight,
Just like 'Wildcatters' that make their own bullets/chambers still do.

The barrel twist rate is probably reasonable in a new rifle,
Some older bolt & military barrels had 1 turn in 14 inches or slower barrels,
Newer ones for 'Varmint' (light weight bullets) will still be 1-10 inches,
While 1-8 or 1-9 works pretty good for the intermidate weight bullets, the common 50 to 65 grain range,

Now, to each there own, more power to them,
But having shot .223 since the 60s, I'm NOT going to try to make shots with a .223 that a .308 or .300 Win Mag should be taking.
I stay away from 1-6 twist barrels and 77 to 99 grain bullets.
Using a .223 for 1,000 yard shots is like using a fly swatter to drive nails,
Just get a hammer...

I used Win 748, dirty but accurate, temperature sensative.
I used Varget until the supply dried up, good, very accurate.
I use Benchmark, again, good & accurate, not temp sensitive, but not cheap.
I tried 223 CFE, haven't run enough to tell yet, seems to shoot OK in cooler weather.

My standard bullet has become Hornady by default.
They are consistant, shoot well, and were the only quality manufacturer available during the 7 annual "Obama's Commin Fer Yur Guns!" Sales runs on components.

I'm particularly fond of the 55 grain Vmax and about 26 grains of Benchmark with a Winchester SR primer. Dime size 10 shot groups @ 100 yards.
Varget will do the same thing.
Winchester 748 will do quarter size 10 shot groups through the same rifles,
So you can see why I'm liking Benchmark & Varget...
 
Anybody use Accurate 2460 in 223? I just got a smokin' (pun intended) deal on. 8 lb jug. Haven't used it before, but couldn't resist the deal. I typically use Hornady 55 GR FMJBT for punching paper and ringing steel.
 
There are many good even great .223 powders out there. You can ask until your blue in the face and you will get many many different opinions on what we think it "Best" but only you can make the choice on what you like best. Bullet weight, barrel and a few other factors will determine which is best for you and your rifle.


My favorite right now is 844 pull down powder because it was cheap but I like Ramshot TAC in general when I can find it "Cheap".
 
I guess I'll jump in here .

1) I did not realize they made H8208xbr I say that because I use IMR 8208xbr and never seen an H in front of it . Hodgdon web site does not show H8208xbr in there load data only IMR . :confused:

That all said . There are great choices suggested in this thread . There are only two I know for sure that are NOT temp sensitive . Those are Varget and IMR 8208xbr

Varget has been known to be a great powder for accuracy as well as being very temperature stable so if you can find it , get it .

The roomer I've been hearing is 8208xbr is used in the MK-262 mod1 cartridge designed for are special ops guys in Afghanistan . They specifically needed a very temperature stable powder for that round . Now It's my understanding that it's pretty darn stable in very hot conditions down into the 40's . Not sure how it does below that . I'm sure it works but the data I've seen only shows temp stability from 40* to 120* . The other powder I hear it may use is Ramshot TAC

IMR 4895 is not as temp stable as the other two but I use it in my NM service rifle as well as some 55gr plinking loads . It's very good powder but assuming you are in Canada . Not sure that's your best choice . If you can IMR 4064 is a bit more stable then 4895 but not as good as Varget or 8208xbr

I'm mentioning all this because I just happened to have looked at my 223 data the other day and was surprised at what I saw . I keep detailed notes of every load I've worked up as well as the targets that go with . So I'm flipping through my log books and I come across some 223 data and 8208xbr . I worked up from min to max and every charge except one was sub moa . I just sat there looking at the data and asked my self why am I not using this stuff . Keep in mind this is 75gr & 77gr bullets for my service rifle . I remember that I was using it for 308 so I pull that binder out and guess what I see ? That's right a bunch a sub moa groups but in this case my notes say I was getting sticky bolts in the velocity range I was looking for at the time . So I guess I just put it up and forgot it did well in 223 . I just pulled out of storage ( basement ) and loaded some 75gr match bullets to confirm they really did do as well as my notes say . I've not shot them yet , just loaded them Thursday .

Anyways If your H8208xbr is really IMR 8208xbr I'd give that a try for sure . If you can find it , Varget should do the job quite well .
 
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The roomer I've been hearing is 8208xbr is used in the MK-262 mod1 cartridge designed for are special ops guys in Afghanistan . They specifically needed a very temperature stable powder for that round . Now It's my understanding that it's pretty darn stable in very hot conditions down into the 40's . Not sure how it does below that . I'm sure it works but the data I've seen only shows temp stability from 40* to 120* . The other powder I hear it may use is Ramshot TAC
Click to expand...

Mk262 mod1 is a ball powder, 8208xbr is a stick powder. It is a proprietary powder, last I checked made by Saint Marks. You can find references to "BALL PERFORMANCE" powder in dtic archives going back to 2006 which coincides with increases in velocity and temp stability for Mk262. The best fit of the known military ball powders is SMP-842.

But if you want to clone Mk262, ask yourself, what is a temp stable, low muzzle flash, ball powder with decoppering agent AND can push a 77gr SMK to 2,800 fps from a 20" barrel? It isn't TAC, which has horrible temp stability. It isn't Power Pro 2000-MR which has good temp stability but no decoppering agent. The closest I can find is AR Comp, which can do it by going above published load data (multiple shooters have successfully cloned Mk262 Mod1 ballistics with AR Comp at this time using AR Comp).

The reason I believe this to be true is that the SDS for AR Comp lists "traces of metal oxides" as residue (despite not listing any metal oxides elsewhere in the SDS), and tin dioxide is a common decoppering agent, AR Comp hit the civilian market about 4 or 5 years after Black Hills and NSWC Crane changed the temp stability requirements for the ball powder they were using so it makes sense that the powder would filter out to the commercial market.

So it's not exactly a slam dunk of a case (Black Hills isn't using cannister grade stuff anyways), and you can use other powders to duplicate the ballistics of milspec Mk262, but I hope it has at least been food for thought.

Jimro
 
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Jimro:

Yeah thanks for that , I may have confused trying to duplicate performance with duplicate the load . I still think 8208 is going to be a good 223 powder .
 
Metal God,

A friend of mine shoots 223 out past 1100, and 8208xbr is his powder of choice. A shoulder injury made 308 bolt rifles not an option, so he had to switch to 223 bolt and AR until he heals. You can get a little more velocity with Power Pro 2000MR, but odds are you'll get more consistent velocity numbers from the 8208.

His loads are above published maximums, but a lot of guys shooting FTR are doing the same thing.

Jimro
 
I have done some comparative "testing",(term loosely applied)

I do not know your twist rate.These are for AR's

With a 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 twist,I like 75-77 gr bullets.For these,RE-15 is my go-to powder.I am open to trying the 4895's.As much as I am a Varget fan,it just did not deliver the velocity I got with RE-15.

With 69 gr bullets in a 1 in 9 twist,Varget is my go-to.I use between 25 and 25.5 gr.Please use your manual and work up.

My brother has been using the 60 gr Nosler Varmint Ballistic tips for PD's.
He gets excellent accuracy/velocity with Benchmark

Frankly,with my quicker twist barrels,I have not loaded 55's.

Long ago,when we had 1 in 12 AR's,I was still loading powder of opportunity.It needed to go "bang" and load another one.
But seems like H-335 was a darn good one.
 
Jimro,
It isn't TAC, which has horrible temp stability.
Click to expand...

That is good to know. I am mainly a fair weather paper puncher so I don't see the issues with temp and TAC but will keep that in mind the next .223/5.56 powder purchase.
 
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