overkill0084
New member
Sorry, if I came across as directing that at you. That was not my intent. It was intended as a general statement on the wisdom of disregarding firearms laws.
What is meant by registering your firearm?
- Thread starter Red Dog
- Start date
tubeshooter
New member
No problem!
It's a disclaimer that needs to be there, anyway.
Only if they already have the gun usually.
They need the make and serial number to search from the manufacturer to the first point of retail sale. And in may states that allow private sales the record ends a the first point of retail sale.
Even if the gun went through another FFL again, there is no way to tie it back to the original purchaser.
Pretty tough since it in many states the serial number is never reported as part of the NICS check, or the make, caliber, or any thing much about the gun beyond long gun or handgun.
4473s oly have to h\be held by theFFL for 20 years ad can then be destroyed.
If the FFL terminates ther license any 4473s less than 20 years old go to BATFE to sit in file cabinets.
The FFKs bound book goes to BATFE when they end their licernse, to live in filing cabinets in WV.
Only if they are machine guns.
BATFE is prohibited every year from using any of their budget allocation to even try an computerize the old FFL records they have.
They live in file cabinets, ad must be searched by hand.
There is no way to take a persons name and search all the records.
Some states require registration, and others have been caught keeping background check data, but it is pretty far from a federal undertaking.
Read my post. It only applies to store bought guns. They are traceable, it is a pain in the a** but it doesn't require 'registration'.
As for guns bought privately, that is a different matter. They are still traceable in many instances.
It depends on how much effort goes into it.
A properly cleaned drop gun is usually untraceable.
Cheapshooter
New member
Kept BY THE DEALER!!! not a government agency! At least not legally kept by the government.
Now I'm sure there are plenty of those out there with their aluminum foil foil hats, and conspiracy theories that will continue to insist that there is some giant hidden government storage area with all the information about everything that everyone has ever done. But from a legislative, and legal point, there is no such thing as a federal registration of other than Class III firearms!
firespec35
New member
All I know about is MI. We are a must register state. If you do not have a Cpl (ccw) you must go to the local PD and get a purchase permit. You then have a few days to use it ( 5 or 10 its been a while) and then return the rev forms to the local pd which go to state pd and they bok the registry. If you have a Cpl, all you have to do is fill out the RI-60 form and take it to your local pd who mails it to the state.
throttleup
New member
Firearms Registration
If you are talking about a handgun, only New York, Michigan and California have handgun registration. California, Connecticut and New Jersey register "assault weapons" and Hawaii and Wash. D.C. register both handguns and long guns. I am told that Maryland registers "assault weapons" automatically through dealer reporting but cannot confirm that.
All manufacturers must keep a record of which firearms went to which distributor. Each distributor must keep a record of which firearms went to which dealer. Each dealer must keep a record of which person purchased which firearm. That is where the trail usually ends. No one reports private sales. In a few states there are no "private" sales they can only sell through a dealer. In private sales a gun could change hands legally 20 times without any records.
If you are talking about a handgun, only New York, Michigan and California have handgun registration. California, Connecticut and New Jersey register "assault weapons" and Hawaii and Wash. D.C. register both handguns and long guns. I am told that Maryland registers "assault weapons" automatically through dealer reporting but cannot confirm that.
All manufacturers must keep a record of which firearms went to which distributor. Each distributor must keep a record of which firearms went to which dealer. Each dealer must keep a record of which person purchased which firearm. That is where the trail usually ends. No one reports private sales. In a few states there are no "private" sales they can only sell through a dealer. In private sales a gun could change hands legally 20 times without any records.
Cheapshooter
New member
#1. Why would you have conversations with an FBI aghent when applying for a C&R. It's handled by the BATF! Very simple form, and easy to follow instructions.
#2. With the Federal laws as stated, if an FBI agent could access a national list, why would he divulge it to you?
Are you sure it was an FBI agent, or was it somebody from the Peoples Republic of Illinois? With the laws in your state, I don't doubt that there isn't a list of every firearm, and every bit of ammunition you've ever purchased!
Super Sneaky Steve
New member
I think for sure the Feds know who owns guns. They have a list of things that make you a potential terrorist. Owning a gun is one, if you have more than 7 days of food is another, or if you prefer to pay for things with cash you could be a terrorist.
They don't only track your purchases, they tap your calls and track your movements with your cell phone. The patriot act gives them this power and more.
Tomorrow, the 26th our awesome president will sign another law that will let these suspected terrorists disappear forever without a trace or a trial.
America today is totally different than it was 10 years ago.
They don't only track your purchases, they tap your calls and track your movements with your cell phone. The patriot act gives them this power and more.
Tomorrow, the 26th our awesome president will sign another law that will let these suspected terrorists disappear forever without a trace or a trial.
America today is totally different than it was 10 years ago.
Okay, long story short, but a bit longer. My name got flagged as a felon when applying for the C&R. The BATF told me the best way to clear it up would be talk with the FBI. So that’s what I did. Didn’t make sense to me, but that’s what I did.
The FBI agent was a female. During our conversation I told her that if I was indeed a felon, I never would be able to buy a firearm in Illinois because I wouldn’t have the Illinois FOID card. She looked me up and found that I indeed had a valid Illinois FOID card and started reading off a list of firearms I had bought, starting with one I just bought a couple months earlier for my daughter, a NEF 20 gauge shotgun. I don’t think she meant to divulge this information to me, as she was also talking with someone else that must have been in her office area. To be honest, she sounded a bit ditsy, or maybe was a rookie.
It was an Illinois based FBI office in Chicago that I called, but that makes little difference. I’m very sure all FBI agents have access to all data recorded country wide.
I doubt they know about any ammo purchases, because nothing is recorded to buy ammo, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did.
Cheapshooter
New member
That makes me think that she possibly had access to the records kept by the state of Illinois. I think your story would be of great interest to many in the fight for gun rights if it could prove that a national registry exists. That would be right up there with Fast and Furious type actions.
Maybe try contacting the NRA, and Second Amendment Foundation to give them all the details you have. I'm sure if you convince them of your experience they would be very interested!
Maybe try contacting the NRA, and Second Amendment Foundation to give them all the details you have. I'm sure if you convince them of your experience they would be very interested!
They may keep records that an instant check was done on you, but the FFL doesn't give them the information on the firearm you purchased. At best they would know that you purchased (or attempted to purchase) a firearm and maybe the general type (handgun or long gun) of firearm you purchased.
If you have a CHL in TX, they don't even do the NICs.
Let me guess, Illinois requires registration and keeps the records accessible via your FOID.
That's a state issue, not a Federal issue. The fact that a federal agent can access state records for a state that requires gun registration does not prove that registration is happening everywhere.
The reason we know that they don't do it is that serial numbers are not provided with a NICs Check. Ask any FFL.
The forms are kept by the FFL until he goes out of business. After that they are kept IN PAPER FORM by the BATF. They can be legally accessed by law enforcement to perform "reverse traces" but not for registration purposes.
That's how traces work. Starting with a make and serial number, LE can call the manufacturer to determine which distributor took delivery of that gun. They then use FFL records (including 4473's) to determine who eventually purchased the gun in question. The traces are done starting with a gun, and only when a gun turns up that has been used in a crime.
"Drop guns" and other illegal activities are not topics for discussion on TFL.
bedbugbilly
New member
As has already been stated, in Michigan you must register your handgun. I'm not familiar with the procedure that is required if you have a CCW but for a regular individual, you need to get a purchase permit from the PD - usually your county sheriffs dept. unless you live in a city with a PD - that is good for I believe ten days - the permit is taken to a dealer and upon purchase, the permit is returned and the weapon registered. An individual can sell to an individual, but the buyer must acquire a purchase permit which is then filled out by the seller. Seller retains one of the four parts and the buyer then has to take the permit back to the PD.
This is supposed to prevent two things - 1 - the person obtaining the purchase permit it "run" for a criminal background and if anything shows up, they are denied and 2 - the serial numbers of the weapon are "run" to check if it is stolen. While a person may grumble about it - it is really no big deal and there is no cost. Yes, the weapon is registered but at some point, it has already been registered through the FFL process. The only exception to this are perhaps "estate type handguns" - ex. - one that was brought back from the service or one that is old enough to have not passed through the FFL process.
I had a pistol given to me in the 60s that was brought back by a Navy piolot after WW II. I was going to sell it and in order to do so, had to register it. I told the girl the story behind it and she ran it through as an "estate" gun. I had to fill out a purchase permit and she ran the serial # it came back as having a clean background. I then took it to a gun dealer to sell on consignment and had to fill out the proper papers transferring ownership to him so that it was liquidated under his FFL. Again - no big deal.
Now - had I not registered the handgun that was given to me and I was transporting it to a range to shoot and for some reason got stoped by PD and I had to tell them if I had any weapons. I know that the serial # of the handgun would have been "run" and when it came back as being unregistered - and my Driver's License says I am a resident of Michigan - I could be charged with possession of an unregistered handgun.
I have never had a problem in obtaining a purchase permit nor have I ever been hassled by any officer when I went to apply for a permit or when I dropped one off after a purchase. As one officer explained to me one time - he didn't like the idea of an individual having to register a handgun either - but - every once in a while one comes through that was stolen. The process can not only help track things back and hopefully get the person/s responsible for the theft but it can also assist in getting the stolen weapon back to its rightful owner.
Let's face it. Almost every handgun is already registered through the FFL process with the execption of some that have slipped through such as "service bring backs". That's the requirement in Michigan and so be it. If the process keeps a handgun out of the hands of a convicted felon (which in Michigan, a convicted felon cannot have a handgun - yea, yea - he's done his time, so what? - That's the law and the convicted felon knows it, whether he's served his time or not knows it so keep your nose clean or don't com cryin') or preventss a stolen weapon from traveling further and maybe being returned to its rightful owner, then I don't have a problem with it.
This is supposed to prevent two things - 1 - the person obtaining the purchase permit it "run" for a criminal background and if anything shows up, they are denied and 2 - the serial numbers of the weapon are "run" to check if it is stolen. While a person may grumble about it - it is really no big deal and there is no cost. Yes, the weapon is registered but at some point, it has already been registered through the FFL process. The only exception to this are perhaps "estate type handguns" - ex. - one that was brought back from the service or one that is old enough to have not passed through the FFL process.
I had a pistol given to me in the 60s that was brought back by a Navy piolot after WW II. I was going to sell it and in order to do so, had to register it. I told the girl the story behind it and she ran it through as an "estate" gun. I had to fill out a purchase permit and she ran the serial # it came back as having a clean background. I then took it to a gun dealer to sell on consignment and had to fill out the proper papers transferring ownership to him so that it was liquidated under his FFL. Again - no big deal.
Now - had I not registered the handgun that was given to me and I was transporting it to a range to shoot and for some reason got stoped by PD and I had to tell them if I had any weapons. I know that the serial # of the handgun would have been "run" and when it came back as being unregistered - and my Driver's License says I am a resident of Michigan - I could be charged with possession of an unregistered handgun.
I have never had a problem in obtaining a purchase permit nor have I ever been hassled by any officer when I went to apply for a permit or when I dropped one off after a purchase. As one officer explained to me one time - he didn't like the idea of an individual having to register a handgun either - but - every once in a while one comes through that was stolen. The process can not only help track things back and hopefully get the person/s responsible for the theft but it can also assist in getting the stolen weapon back to its rightful owner.
Let's face it. Almost every handgun is already registered through the FFL process with the execption of some that have slipped through such as "service bring backs". That's the requirement in Michigan and so be it. If the process keeps a handgun out of the hands of a convicted felon (which in Michigan, a convicted felon cannot have a handgun - yea, yea - he's done his time, so what? - That's the law and the convicted felon knows it, whether he's served his time or not knows it so keep your nose clean or don't com cryin') or preventss a stolen weapon from traveling further and maybe being returned to its rightful owner, then I don't have a problem with it.
Cheapshooter
New member
Thanks JohnHSa for a through explanation.
Sometimes I think it boils down to governments, local, state, and federal, supporting rumors of gun registration just to discourage some people from buying guns!
Sometimes I think it boils down to governments, local, state, and federal, supporting rumors of gun registration just to discourage some people from buying guns!