What is better than M-4 / XM-15 / AR-15 ?

S

Sacco583

New member
So, what IS better - or close to - any of the M-4 type rifles? I know that "better" could mean a lot of things. But let's start a no holds bar'd "My dad can beat up your dad" thread here.
The reason I ask - and let's keep this whole thing under controll - is I want to buy a new assault rifle. A few things to take into account: 1) I am not in law inforcement or the armed services and never plan on doing anything like that. 2)There are hundreds of rifles that are better, I'm sure, but I can't get them LEGALLY. I, a civilian, must be able to buy this weapon while abiding by the current gun laws. 2) Money is an object. Let's set the ceiling at $2000, preferably $1000. 3) .308 IS NOT AN OPTION! I know I'll get crap for this one but again, I'm not rich. 308 is way to expensive. I don't plan on needing this rifle to save my life and if it does I'll be shooting at an unarmored target. I don't hunt so what't the need. Don't even bother trying to talk me out of it. 308 is too expensive!
So, that said, have at it. What is a good alternative to the M-4 type rifle?
 
(CRAP ON)If 308 ammo is too expensive, why not consider a 10/22? Rimfire ammo is really cheap, keeps well, and is reasonably accurate. I don't know where you're finding your 308 prices, but I can get plain jane stuff from reming-chester for about 50 cents a shot, and surplus much cheaper. 223 ammo is not selling for a whole lot less, unless you have a definate line on that caliber.(CRAP OFF)
What is it that you wish this unknown caliber rifle to do?
 
A. what do you want to do: plink, target shoot, matches, show off, do you want to shoot at 50 yards, 500 yards, do you want to benchrest, or freehand?

what state are you in?...in CA you can only purchase one type of military style rifles. the fn/fal series, but you have to have have the pistol grip removed unfortunatly:mad: :confused: Each state has its own laws, check into them.

308 is not that expensive!!....I purchased 500 rounds for 70 bucks and that aint bad!

check out www.robarm.com US made rifles based on AK action. some are very nice looking they also make m96 expeditionary rifle.

there are also all the other AK variants.
 
oh...BTW

assault rifles have been outlawed since 1934

in order to be called an assault rifle it has to be able to shoot full auto.

the are known as military style semi-automatic rifle. or semi-auto sporter.

any other comments welcome.
 
I like to shoot cans of cheap generic carbinated beverages mostly. I have a Remington Viper .22 . This does not satasfy me. I like more stopping power and all the obvious perks that come with having an assault rifle.
But let's not bust my balls over the stupid things that I'll be doing with the rifle. I'm looking for an ALTERNATIVE to the M-4 type rifles.
So, let's do this. 308 INCLUDED! Why not? Give me ALTERNATIVES to the M-4 types including .308 . No hunting rifles, though. Assault rifles or close to. Something that performs close to the M-4.
...in the meen-time I'll check on 308 prices. Last I heard .223 was 1000 rounds for around $90. And 308 was around 3 times that. That is not cheap.
 
FREERIDE...Thanks a lot for the info. This is a big help. I'm doing all that. Plinking, I like to think I'm a good marksman so I like to shoot targets and have some bullets hit some of the time, showing off (I'll admit it). I want a small rifle for home deffence and would like to train for urban combat. I would also like to eventually but a good scope on it and hit those cans at 300 yards or so. I know that the XM-15 is not the best at ranges past that but it has good performance before that and CQB performance is more important to me.
500 rounds at $70 is, in my opinion, expensive. Getting double the shots for $20 more sounds good to me. I like to spend a whole day out in the desert and 500 rounds would only last me half. HOWEVER, I am willing to look into the 308 part of the spectrum. After all a bullet that size will blast the sh!t out of anything and that's cool.
 
Not sure why you want an alternative. You can get a Rock River Arms M4gery postban for $660 shipped. For $2000 you can get a nice Colt Government carbine preban.

The 1000 rounds of .223 for $90 is probably Russian steel-cased ammo. Works for some people and some people say it sucks. I paid $140 for 1000 rounds of .308 British Radway Green. These days I think it's just a little bit more than that. www.ammoman.com has Portuguese and South African .308 NATO for $179/case/1000 rounds.

There are AK variants but I'm not a big fan of 7.62X39 so I can't really make any recommendations.
 
Nothing is better

After reading your posts, and with all the limitations the laws have burdened us with, the answer is obvious:

BUY THE M4gery, get 10-20 mags. (get the USGI mags. even the slightly used ones, and they can be found for about $15 each).

I happen to be very partial to Bushmaster brand, but AR's are like vehicle makes, and I like Toyota.

I run Wolf amost exclusively, it runs great in my 4 Bushy's, but I know some guys have real fits trying to get Wolf to run in theirs (most of the problems SEEM to come from guys that have non-chrome lined chambers).

That is my .02 anyhow,

cheers

tire iron
 
So you don't like the AR-15 type rifles???

You can get a damn nice AK for less then $1000.

SAR-1, SAR-2 & SAR-3's can be had for about $400. [SAR-1(7.62x39mm) or SAR-2(5.45x39mm) is what I think you probably want. Cheap guns, relatively cheap "intended capacity" magazines and cheap ammo. You can dress them up to look pretty cool.]

HK-93 go for over $2000, but if you look you could find one for less then $2K.

The M96 Expedition rifle is about $1200.

The new H&K SL8 is about $1300, but that has single stacked 0 round magazine.

There's those FAL's(.308), I don't know the price, but their quite below $2K.

What the heck do you have in mind??? :)
 
What about the 308 variant/conversion that you can get for the M-4? Are those good? I heard somebody say something bad about them once. Can't remember what it was.
over $100 spent on a days plinking is a lot of money. Like I said, I could go through that in a day. I would be willing to pull the trigger less if anyone can give me a good alternative to the M-4.
AK? Can you get those? My dad had an SKS a while ago. That's the same thing, right? Would it be better to get an AK? And is the AK/SKS as fun as the M-4?
 
Sacco,

What I recommend is that you use the search feature, and look up stuff like FAL, M1A, Garand, AK 47, AK 75, SAR, Bushmaster, etc. etc.

There are literally THOUSANDS of posts relating to the pros and cons of each of these. We have some very knowledgable folks on this board, and believe me we have beaten this dead horse many times. :)

And yes there are civillian versions of the AK availible.

Personally I like the FAL the best. I just bought a case of .308 for $150. Decent .223 isn't that much less. I don't count Wolf as decent. AR 15s are too picky for the lacquer build up that it causes. If you want cheap ammo, but lots of fun to shoot, get a 7.62x39 AK variant. $70 per case, and AKs eat anything.
 
The AR might be a better 'tactical' choice, but personally I think the AK is funner... Cheap ammo, reliable, reasonably accurate... good stuff.
 
One more thing, since you are talking fun here...


I surely would be more satisfied after shooting 500 .308s than 5.56s or 7.62x39s. For fun at the range, it's the quality of the boom, not the quantity.

And my rifle choice... Springfield M1A Scout or carbine FAL...


only opinion, not subject to debate
 
you know, that is a very good point. I think I too would have more fun shooting a 308 than 223. I didn't think of that. Time to reconsider my whole possition and opproach. Thanks for ruining everything.
So, next question. Are the .308 conversion/variants of the M-4 worth getting?
 
I have a Bushy 20", a VEPR II (arguably the best AK on the market), and a Bushy M4gery. The latter is topped with a Holosight, allowing 1-2" groups at 50 yds and 3-4" at 100 yds (not benchrested). Weight is around 6.5 lbs, give or take. This is my favorite and has everything you would want in an urban tactical defense weapon (notice how I do not say "assault weapon"). It is not as accurate as the 20" AR, and not as evil looking as the AK. Also, the AK is probably more reliable after firing 400-500 rds from each. BUT, the M4 is the best compromise - good accuracy, light weight, comfortable, easy to manuever, plenty of firepower. What more could you ask for? If I were you, I would get a stock M4 and add things like a nice scope, an aftermarket trigger, and maybe a Hogue grip (I like mine). You could get all that for right at $1000.
 
this is all very good advise. Thank you very much. What i'm looking for now is an AR-10 (what is an M4gery? is that just a conversion?), FAL, AK (wich really doesn't interrest me BUT is a very nice rifle for almost half the price), or SAR1/2. I will look into these. thanks again. Any other ideas?
 
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