What is a Pistol's Life Expectancy?

D

Der Grosse

New member
This might be a dumb question, but I don't have much mechanical knowledge (I didn't take shop in high school and my father's idea of fixing something was to call a repair man). I have owned an H&K P7M8 for a year (and love it). I know from the H&K web site that their guns are purportedly engineered to exceed 20,000 rounds. But what does that mean? Will it stop working after 20,000 rounds? Will it need new parts at that point? And, if so, why doesn't my gun manual give me a maintenance schedule (other than when to clean it) like my car does?

I had been interested in acquiring a Beretta (Cougar or 9000s), but recent posts have mentioned aluminum frames which will fatigue over time, and that another Beretta product (the Tomcat) was only engineered for 2000 rounds! I don't expect that a gun will last forever, but I am not interested in spending $600-700 of my hard-earned money so that I will have to replace my gun after a couple of years (hell, my tennis rackets last longer than that). Should I only buy H&K's?

Please advise me of what kind of life expectancy I can reasonably expect from my H&K (I religiously field strip my H&K and clean the gas piston every 500 rounds). I practice (100 rounds per month) with American Eagle 115gr and keep it loaded with Federal 9BP 115 gr (I fire 17 rounds every 3 months to use up the two mags I keep loaded and the one bullet which is in the chamber). I would also be interested to know whether Berreta engineers its guns to meet H&K's performance levels. Thanks.
 
I have a 1984 P7 PSP hard chromed. Shot regularly and it still looks new. Buil to last.

I know my 9mm, 10mm, and .45 ACP Glocks will last a good 200K per Chuck Taylor's G17 that has to be at 500K by now.
 
It depends on the pistol and the caliber . The longest firing life I have heard of was some Swiss tests of the military version of the SIG P210 9mm. They fired one pistol 100,000 times changing only barrels as the rifiling washed out.
 
IMHO, most high quality (including Sigs, H&Ks, Glocks, Rugers, Springfields, Kimbers, Colts, etc.) semiautomatics will last decades -- if not a lifetime -- when properly maintained. I respectfully suggest the smartest thing one can do to ensure longevity is to reduce metallic fatigue crack initiation/propagation by shooting low-pressure loads for practice -- and leaving the extra-pressure rounds (+P, +P+, etc.) for defensive carry.
 
Pistol's life expectancy

I would say that the life span of a steel framed 1911 or even the polymer Glock is indefinite with minor repairs. The 1911 would be limited by rust and the glock by degredation of the polymer.

Aluminum framed pistols should go to 20,000 rounds without a problem. I would then be concerned with cracks in the frame at any time, though they would not necessarily make the gun unuseable.
 
From what I have gleaned from gunsmiths about the 1911, the barrels average 15,000 to 60,000 rounds and some often longer depending on loads and rate of fire. The slide is good for about 120,000+ major loads in 45, somewhat less for 38 super and the like. And the frame is good for an almost indefinite period. But these are all rough estimates. As to the small parts, it depends.
 
It would take a wealthy man to shoot out a pistol. Think about how long it would take just to shoot 20,000 rounds. Even if it was the only gun you owned and you shot a lot more than normal.
 
444,

I have to slightly disagree with you. I have several (more then 10 pistols) and I do not consider myself a rich man.

Of my pistols thought I have several that are over the 5000 rnd mark and many that are beyond the 3000 rnd mark. I do keep religous track of every (and I mean every) round fired out of each gun and all of the maintenence and cleaning records. I am also only an occasional shooter, 2 times a month or so, it is just that when I shoot, I like to shoot between 250 and 500 rnds per gun per outing. For example this afternoon, I will go out with my Premier II and 500 rnds of 45 hardball and my Colt Government 380 with 400 rnds of 88 grn JHP's. All will be shot.

Am I worried about 20k rounds out of my pistols. Yes, I am sure I will put that many through most of my pistols in this decade, and I hope to see at least 4 more decades after that.

Because of this I am shying away from the aluminum and plastic guns and going for the steel ones of high quality. IE the Baer 1911's, H&K P7's etc.
 
Peter:

I think you'll find that the plastic guns will last at least as long as the steel ones. As one poster noted, Chuck Taylor has put hundreds of thousands of rounds through his Glock 17.

M1911
 
My problem with the Plastic (Polymer Glock) is really no one of longevity, but more of 'squishyness" when I fire it.

Specifically when I run full load g20 10mm rounds, I do not like the way the frame flexs or is "squishy" for lack of a better term. I like the pistol a lot, but this prevents me from shooting it as much as I shoot my witness 10mm.

But I am still kind of concerned how the plastic will be doing in 2050 or so. The plastics I have seen from the 1940's or so seem to be pretty brittle and crazed. I do not know if that is a relevant comparison but it does raise some issues.

The one conclusion I can draw by going to any good used gun store is that the steel parts of the guns of the last 50 to 75 years seem to be in better shape then the aluminum and the plastic parts are.

Maybe the materials are now different, but I am just making an observation.
 
Old guns

Several of our CA shooters have (not sure if they use'em) Colt SAA's from the 1890's. I have my grandfather's S&W M&P in .32-20 and it's pre-WWI. Still a shooter.

I do know that there is a process (IIRC) called "hydrogen embrittlement" that effects steel products. (may have the exacts wrong) If any of our learned members would expand our knowledge, it would be appreciated.

Giz
 
I got my Colt 1911A1 as a gift from my Uncle :) By serial number is was built in 1930. It has been tinkered on accurized,extended safety,beavertail and trigger job (I have all of the orignal parts). This old gun is as tight and as smooth as any new production gun I've seen. Will it last another lifetime? I'm making sure that my 12 year old learns maintanence of guns so he can get the enjoyment out of his gun when he is my age.
 
I think it's a testament to the durability of Glock pistol's, but I have a college buddy who inherited a G17 form his father which was bought new in the 80's. This pistol was of the 1st generation glocks that came here, and had untold thousands of rounds through it. However, which struck me funny is that this pistol cold literally be twisted, not much, but if you grabbed the bottom of the grip you could literally twist is so much so that the mag could not be inserted. The real funny thing is that it was still shot often and had the occasional FTF every few thousand rounds. I spoke with him several month's ago and he stated that the pistol was still shooting good. This pistol was used and abused and it still delivered the goods.

Mike
 
The main thing is as long as the gun out lasts the would-be perp that broke into your house :-)

My military buddy goes shooting A LOT. I'd say 75K rounds through his glock... The barrel needed replacing, the firing pin stopped firing, the 4th spring, some of the magazines didn't work so reliably anymore. That being said, those are all "consumable" parts, which one would figure needed replacing eventually.

A new firing pin, a new barrel, new springs, a new magazine, and it shot fine. So I can at least say that well made guns (HK's, Sig's, Glocks, Steyrs, Kimbers etc...) will last you long enough to leave in the will for the grandkids.

I'm saying this on the asumption you are jumping out of the heli's and throwing your glock from 400 feet in the air etc...

Shoot often, shoot safe.
Albert
 
The only handgun that I have even come close to wearing out was a 1911 that I shot in IPSC competition in the '80's. After about 75,000 rounds of full power loads (mostly reloads with cast bullets), the barrel lugs were well worn, the sear-hammer-disconnector were just about gone and the extractor had been replaced twice. Considering that the components to reload 75,000 rounds would probably run about $5,000 now, I don't concern myself with wearing out handguns, just getting the money for components and the time to shoot.
 
Wouldn't we all like to know?

According to rental ranges, the 1911, Glocks, Rugers, CZs are the toughest. The Berettas, SIGs and BHPs not as tough, but way tough enough.

According to govt testing, the avg life of an M9 slide is abut 75K, frame 35K, locking block 20K (with mil-spec ammo, about the same as SAAMI +P). Figure the SIG is about the same/better. At one time the FBI and Texas DPS had service life requirements of 40K for slide/barrel and both issued SIGs. I know people who shoot std presssure 9mm ammo and have gone over 50-100K in Berettas/SIGs too. And some that broke much earlier. When FBI used the BHP, usually shot em out about 50K. Had a friend break two at under 15K. Two of the Glock 40s the FBI tested broke trigger bars under 20K.

All guns break. Yours might, will for sure if you shoot it enough, no matter what it is.

I usually work with 2 (or 3) guns of the same (whatever the pistola du jour is). One for each hand and maybe a spare. :)

One to carry, one to train with, a spare. Then you still have one if one needs work, and a fresh one ya trust is always in your hand. Serious measures for serious work?
 
The local range here use to have 15 SIG's, they are down to 1, 14 of them, had cracked frames. That being said, they cycled over 100K rounds through each of the sigs, some of them eating over 200K rounds before they broke. Those are NOT bad numbers at all!!!

The guy also said that the Glocks are holding up very well, and so they have moved to all Glocks for their guns. 75K rounds through most of them and no sign of wear or tear.

That's all I can really comment on, there's no place I can think of that cycles more rounds through a gun (without cleaning in between!!!) than the range... Read into that what you want.

Albert
 
I wonder if it's fair to say that any pistol (well) made since colt's SAA still works fine today, absent corrosion or shooting untold 100K? rounds through it?

I was also wondering about the probable lifespan of a .22 Autopistol like the Sig Trailside?
 
In my experience, at least in years past, most pistols became bedside drawer guns. They might have been fired a couple hundred rounds before being put up for 10 years or more. Buying a used pistol was usually a case of finding one that had not corroded, rusted and pitted, or denuded of finish with holster wear. People almost never shot them much. Of course, believe it or not people have more disposable income to buy ammunition today and it's probably cheaper in today's dollars but the real change, I believe, is that a different type person owns firearms today.


Today is the opposite. The advent of air conditioning has beyond doubt reduced rust and corrosion tremendously and yes, there are still some drawer guns and also some holster guns and truck guns as well but as a percentage of all gun owners, the people that I know who own a pistol shoot more. Many people who would have kept a bedside drawer pistol have gotten rid of them. A few years ago, I saw my neighbor on the lawn as I was going to the range and he stopped to talk. He was a young man about thirty and had his first child who was about a year old. In the course of our conversation, he said he had just gotten rid of his last firearm. I asked why. He said he had the child now and he and his wife were afraid to have it in the house for fear the child would get hold of it. I asked what he planned to do about her getting older and visiting friends whose parents owned firearms. I asked if it wouldn't be a better idea to have firearms and teach the child not to pick them up. He looked at me like I was a fool. I guess I am just too far out of the main stream.

Another example is when my mother-in-law recently visited from another state. We were just talking and she said, "you know back years ago we all had guns in the house but I would be scared to death to have one in the house now after Columbine and all that has happened".

Little did she know how many were in the room immediately above her on the second floor as she spoke.

Pigpen
 
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