What is a more potent stopping power round: 38 Special or .380 ACP

The bullets are the same diameter.
My ported S&W 442:
Winchester Silvertip 110 gr. 821 fps = 165# KE
Winchester PDX +P 130 gr. @ 848 fps = 207# KE

Ruger LCP:
Hydra Shok 90 gr. @ 878 fps = 154# KE

IMO: non +p 38 VS 380 the difference isn't much
If you load +p in the 38 the power gap is more
 
I believe that in smaller guns, the .380 has the advantage. Put the Corbon 90 grn up against most factory .38 loads from a two inch .38 barrel and the .380 wins. With a 4" .38, no contest, the .38 wins. For me, I can get better, faster hits from the .380. The difference in either case is not enough to overcome poor placement or lose sleep over.

The J frame platform is better, in my opinion, if you just want to drop something in your pocket and roll.

I like both, I'm better with the .380 and sometimes carry the .38. Go figure.
 
If you do the math----

Velocity squared divided by 450400 times the mass equals energy at muzzle you should arrive at the stronger and better stopping round BUT!

In 1991 a study was completed on actual shooting's and the criteria was to enter the data on particular/specific round the information base was:

1. It had to be a documented shooting
2. You had to have a coroners report or doctors report
3. The round had to be identified/recovered.

Based on the information the 380 was in the lower 10% stopping power.
The 38 special was lower 50% and incidentally the 9MM was with the 38Special.


The number one man stopper was a 125GRN .357 Mag hollow point. I plan to scan the article and let other see it although I need to check the legality of scanning and or duplications infringements? THis means that better than 91% of the time the .357 125 grn HP stoped a person with one shot!

I would like to see the new information since there are new more advanced rounds these days!

Hope this helped!
 
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You're talking about the Marshal and Sanow data. Which has come under some criticism for statistical reliability.

Even with that aside, there's so many brand new really high-tech designs out there without the same track record as the slugs in the M&S records that the data is dated regardless.

For example: the top-rated 357mag per M&S is the Remington 125gr semi-jacketed full-house. This is a fairly primitive JHP that still happens to work well when driven up past 1,400fps and under 1,550/1,600ish, which it does in most 3" barrel through 6" barrel guns.

It's a good round, don't get me wrong. I have some myself I picked up cheap and I often carry some in speed strips as reloads.

But "first at bat" in my gun are some nice Gold Dot 125gr 357 full house as loaded by Doubletap. I'm quite certain for a number of reasons (raw power, more modern JHP construction) that these are better slugs. They don't have as much track record as the old-school Remmies is all.

Also newer than most M&S data: all of the Barnes-X/DPX slugs, all of the new Hornady rubber-tip (Critical Defense, LeverRevolution), the Cor-Bon Pow'R'Ball, lots of Speer Gold Dot variants including the 135gr 38+P/mild357, the Gold Dot 250gr 45LC which I suspect is the most deadly subsonic bullet on the planet short of something packing poison in a hollowpoint cavity(!), Buffalo Bore's breakthrough 158gr 38+P that stomps everything else on raw power in 38+P, lots more.

Upshot: I pay more attention to well-executed (and documented) gel data than I do M&S.
 
Jim,

The information is appreciate and you bring up some very valid points. My thought are if the documentation is from an actual shooting and accompanies a report then it gives one a basis, no more no less. Openions are welcome.

My personal views are I really like my model 60S&W 357 snubby but more than that I also like the 40S&W(Sig P229 Equinox). Before retiring from the Military I carried a SOCOM HK in .45ACP which is also a good round and I am very accuraty/comfortable with but the .45 is designed for knock down power and not necessarily for one shot kill. Although I can't think of anyone that would want to get up if they thought they would get hit again with a .45!:eek:

Lets face it, most folks cannot shoot accuraty with the .45 without some practice!

Being a power hungry person and since I cannot test with ballistic gel, math is my next best thing!

My personal feelings are I would not carry a .380. I would go for the .38 +P or the .357 MAG, If I were limited to one or two calibers.

Ralph Williams
 
Probably the .38 Special because of heavier bullets. With the new 135gr. Gold Dots I don't think the .380 even comes close. In fact getting both penetration and expansion out of a .380 is tuff. It's usually one or the other. The Gold Dot and the old F.B.I. load (158gr. LSWCHP) have good track records. Lots of folks think it's best to load .380's with hardball to get penetration. Got to get to vitals. .38 Special usually will do that. With the .380 it can be a question if it will.
 
.38 special

Bullet weight and muzzle energy aside, the revolver round can reliably use more aggressively contoured hollow-point ammo. Feeding is not a concern.

Add higher bullet weights, higher muzzle energy (especially with .38+p) and aggressive hollow-point ammo, and the .38 should definitely come out ahead.
 
Sombody's got to stand up for the .380! I'd vote for the .380, but with the caveat that the pistol be carried in the toe of a long tube sock, swung around over one's head in the event of an attack, and used as a club! ;)
 
I have both a .380 and a .38spl in my carry rotation. No doubt, the 38+P is superior. But for my purposes, either will be sufficient, I'm sure. The .380 is compact and light enough to come along when the .38 stays home.
 
They claim their .380 is 200 ft. lb Muz. Energy and the .38 Special is 249 ft. lb. the .38S+P is 290 ft. lb.
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From a 4" barrel maybe. Hornady isn't publishing the test barrel length and type, which is a bad sign. It's not even listed in the "spec sheet".

Look, it does appear to be good ammo. But Hornady has a history of fraud in this area. They claimed the XTP slug in 38Spl would expand down around 800-850fps, and that was a documented lie a dozen times over. I'm aware of NO tests that ever showed that trash expanding out of a 2" barrel and most of the time it failed from a 4".

So when they give sketchy info now, it looks bad.

For comparison, go find the Speer data sheet for the 135+P. You'll see ballistics and expansion records from listed guns of listed barrel lengths. A really good ammo house like Buffalo Bore is even more explicit.

Again: if it wasn't for Hornady's past misconduct, I'd be willing to chalk this up to morons in the marketing department saying "keep it simple".
 
I'm basically a revolver man and I like 38 Specials. I'd choose a 38 Special over a 380 any day, all else being equal, but there's the rub. All else isn't always equal. I like my Kel-Tec 380 for one thing only - CONCEALMENT because it "hides out" far better than any 38 Special I've ever had, and it hits a lot harder than any 22, 25, or 32 I've ever had. I carry my little 380 in my front pocket in a cut down Uncle Mike #1 Holster (held together with duct tape.; DON'T DO THIS AT HOME., Its DANGEROUS to cut a holster this way and expose the trigger and I'll probably wind up blowing my own gear off with it one day) but, you'd never know I had the gun with me and if I have my hand in my pocket, it takes me less than a second to get it out and into action. I seriously doubt whether a 380 is a round-for-round slugging equal of a 38 Special; not even an equal of a snub-nose 38 Special, but I have a one shot mag extender on my Kel-Tec and I carry with a round ready for business in the chamber; which gives me a couple or three extra shots on my original load over a 38 Special. I don't try to get fancy with ammo. I use only good quality factory ball ammo to reduce jamming problems and to get maximum penetration.
 
That IS true: it's more fair to ask "which is better, five rounds of 38 or 7+ rounds of 380?"

But. :) The 38 has one more advantage up it's sleeve.

In a close-range fight, I mean like "fists and grapple range", the "lowly" 38 (or 357) snubby comes into it's own as THE dominant firearm, period.

It's more difficult to grab away from you because the barrel is so short - the guy with his hand on the grip has the advantage.

Better yet, it can't go out of battery on a contact wound shot - and when you fill a goblin with THREE different things in rapid succession (the air in the barrel pre-firing, the bullet, then worst of all the hot expanding gasses behind the slug!) you turn the "lowly" 38 standard pressure slug (even a roundnose) into a rampaging horror :eek:.

Press the muzzle of an auto into a goblin and you've likely disabled the gun, with rare exceptions like the German P38 or Luger.
 
38 special, hands down. The 380 is limited by case volume and the fact that the majority of 380 pistols are blow back designs. Where as you can take a .357 revolver and fire some really nasty 38 special loads.

I have heard stories that in the 60's police who were limited to 38 specials would load round to .357 specs. Then fire them from their 38's.
 
The .38 Special.

All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don't use it at all.
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The above quote is from this link: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914

Comparing muzzle energy is not always the best comparison of handgun effectiveness. I agree with the quote.

Momentum is generally a better indicator of effectiveness when comparing handgun rounds. Velocity times mass = momentum.
 
When comparing calibers one must first know what is being compared...

Not every 38Special is going to beat out a 380ACP. You can have very mild shooting 38 and you can fully charged 380. Cartidge designs have made huge leaps in the past few decades. There are some truly amazing self defense loads out there.

So, to be a bit more clear if you are talking about self defense rounds.... 38Special +P versus a self defense loaded 380ACP.

So bringing in the full power capability of each round with the best bullets.

Now you can compare somewhat.

What's the answer? I don't know. I just wanted to clarify you got to compare more specifics.

Also, another factor is what are they being shot out of. The type of gun (more importantly the barrel length) will impact how much that particular gun will maximize that particular load. Meaning if you shoot a full charged 38 in a short 2 inch revolver it's not going to have the same energy as if shot from a 4 or 5 inch revolver.

My $0.02
 
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