What is a more potent stopping power round: 38 Special or .380 ACP
- Thread starter Amurr
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#18indycolts
Moderator
probably the .38 special since its going to have more power behind it.
check this link out my buddy sent me. It's another forum with a category dedicated to terminal ballistics. Read the "sticky" posts at the top. There are about 15 to 20 of them at the top of the page regarding all kinds of ammo from rifle to handgun
http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91
http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91
And in that link I posted they actually have a thread dedicated to .38 vs. .380 in regards to terminal ballistics.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914
Kreyzhorse
New member
The .38 is going to have more energy while throwing more weight at your target. I think a .38 is a "better" option than the .380.
carguychris
New member
+1, and to be more specific, .38Spl loads can use up to 158gr bullets, while the small case size of the .380ACP limits it to a practical maximum of 115gr, and most commercial SD loads are in the ~90gr range.
The muzzle energy of the top commercial SD .380ACP loadings closely approaches common commercial SD .38Spl loadings, but in general, when 2 handgun rounds with similar muzzle energy are compared in the real world, the one using the heavier bullet is usually more effective.
scottaschultz
New member
They say a picture is worth 1000 words!
I don't have any .380 ammo, so I put a 9mm (which is 2mm longer than a .380 ACP) on the left next to a 38 Special on the right. That should pretty much answer your question!
Scott
I don't have any .380 ammo, so I put a 9mm (which is 2mm longer than a .380 ACP) on the left next to a 38 Special on the right. That should pretty much answer your question!
Scott
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Pretty much all of the above are true.
The .38 Special throws a slightly larger (.002") slug of greater weight (90g vs. 125g or 158g) that penetrates as well or better than the .380. When you use .38 +P ammo, the .38 becomes far superior in terminal performance.
With the .380's light bullet, I always used FMJ for defensive ammo, preferring penetration rather than risk a too-shallow wound from a JHP round.
The .38 Special throws a slightly larger (.002") slug of greater weight (90g vs. 125g or 158g) that penetrates as well or better than the .380. When you use .38 +P ammo, the .38 becomes far superior in terminal performance.
With the .380's light bullet, I always used FMJ for defensive ammo, preferring penetration rather than risk a too-shallow wound from a JHP round.
comn-cents
New member
all depends on what kind of bullet you use.
skydiver3346
New member
Which is more powerful?
.38 Special, period.
.38 Special, period.
scottaschultz
New member
Obviously the physical size alone does not equate to "stopping power", but since the OP had "no idea", I just wanted to post a graphic example of the difference between the two rounds to help him see the difference which is sometimes hard to visualize from raw ballistic data.
Scott
Average Joe
New member
.38 special, no contest.
It depends on the ammunition and gun. If +P ammo and a full size service revolver like a S&W M10 or Colt Official Police are part of the equation or if the .380 is a very small gun like a Seecamp, NAA Guardian, Keltec, or Ruger LCP, then the the .38 Special is definately the more powerful of the two. However, if you were to compare a snub revolver like an older Colt Cobra, Colt Agent, or S&W M37 limited to standard pressure .38 ammo to a larger .380 with a longer barrel like a Walther PP, Bersa Thunder, Sig P230, or Beretta Cheetah, then you'll find that the terminal ballistics are much closer.
It IS the 38Spl, for three reasons:
More power (usually!)
More available weight.
Better hollowpoint designs because with no "feed ramp", bullet shapes can feature radical noses that would jam up an auto.
That latter is one reason the best 38Spl+P rounds can do as much damage as even the better 9mm rounds, even though the 9mm has more energy on tap.
However! From a snubby (2" barrel), the 38Spl and even 38+P are somewhat marginal. You have to be picky about your ammo...there's a lot of absolute junk out there. Some of the best: Remington's 158+P, any of the (expensive!) Buffalo Bore, the Speer Gold Dot 135+P, Winchester's 130gr "Supreme" +P, the Hornady Critical Defense in both standard and +P, Cor-Bon's "DPX" 110gr. The Remmie 158+P is a bargain for the performance delivered; the only standard-pressure 38 (read: "not +P") I trust is either Buffalo Bore's 158 or 125 if I can afford 'em, or the Hornady Critical Defense if I'm on the cheap.
Buffalo Bore's 38+P 158gr slug is THE king of the hill in terms of 38Spl energy. From a 2" barrel it gives as much energy as most 9mm from a 4". It's shockingly good stuff for "when you care enough to send the very best".
As to:
Meaningless, because the 38Spl is a late-19th-century design originally meant for black powder, which is very bulky for it's power level. The 9mm and the .380 designed shortly after the 9mm) are early 20th century designs meant for modern smokeless power, and hence use much more compact shells.
Other "black powder ancestry" calibers that are as a result "oversize" are the 45LC, 44Spl/Magnum (as they're stretched from the .44Russian), 357Mag (stretched from the 38Spl), 38-40, 44-40, 45-70 and a surprising number of others.
More power (usually!)
More available weight.
Better hollowpoint designs because with no "feed ramp", bullet shapes can feature radical noses that would jam up an auto.
That latter is one reason the best 38Spl+P rounds can do as much damage as even the better 9mm rounds, even though the 9mm has more energy on tap.
However! From a snubby (2" barrel), the 38Spl and even 38+P are somewhat marginal. You have to be picky about your ammo...there's a lot of absolute junk out there. Some of the best: Remington's 158+P, any of the (expensive!) Buffalo Bore, the Speer Gold Dot 135+P, Winchester's 130gr "Supreme" +P, the Hornady Critical Defense in both standard and +P, Cor-Bon's "DPX" 110gr. The Remmie 158+P is a bargain for the performance delivered; the only standard-pressure 38 (read: "not +P") I trust is either Buffalo Bore's 158 or 125 if I can afford 'em, or the Hornady Critical Defense if I'm on the cheap.
Buffalo Bore's 38+P 158gr slug is THE king of the hill in terms of 38Spl energy. From a 2" barrel it gives as much energy as most 9mm from a 4". It's shockingly good stuff for "when you care enough to send the very best".
As to:
Meaningless, because the 38Spl is a late-19th-century design originally meant for black powder, which is very bulky for it's power level. The 9mm and the .380 designed shortly after the 9mm) are early 20th century designs meant for modern smokeless power, and hence use much more compact shells.
Other "black powder ancestry" calibers that are as a result "oversize" are the 45LC, 44Spl/Magnum (as they're stretched from the .44Russian), 357Mag (stretched from the 38Spl), 38-40, 44-40, 45-70 and a surprising number of others.
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LightningJoe
New member
Nobody knows. Nobody ever will know. There is no way to know.
One more thing: looking over the data at...
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914
I'm seeing things that aren't appearing in other tests, including failures to expand in 4-layer denim out of the Critical Defense 110, Remington 158+P and the Winchester 130+P.
It's possible the particular test gun involved isn't "shooting very fast". In other words, you can get a variance of 50fps or more between two different 2" barrel snubbies. Some of the factors that can slow a round down:
* Too much gap (esp. out past .005" or so).
* Shooting 38 (or 38+P) from a 357 costs you a little bit of pressure.
* "Slow barrel" - a vintage S&W won't shoot as fast as a modern S&W or a Ruger, for example.
(BUT, I just looked again: they're reporting 856fp/s out of the Gold Dot 135+P, which is right in line where it should be. So the gun wasn't THAT slow. Huh. <scratches head>. I'm now wondering what kind of denim they had and maybe "did they get the gel formula right"?
---
If you have a snubby 357, you might want to consider one of the lower-powered 357 slugs. A few are "barely warmed up 38+P" but they're more than hot enough to make up the pressure difference. Likely the mildest of these will be the Speer 135gr "357Mag short barrel specialty load". I've shot these side-by-side with their 38+P cousins and recoil isn't that much different. Even in one of the ultra-light 357s, these should be controllable for most folks and will expand very well.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914
I'm seeing things that aren't appearing in other tests, including failures to expand in 4-layer denim out of the Critical Defense 110, Remington 158+P and the Winchester 130+P.
It's possible the particular test gun involved isn't "shooting very fast". In other words, you can get a variance of 50fps or more between two different 2" barrel snubbies. Some of the factors that can slow a round down:
* Too much gap (esp. out past .005" or so).
* Shooting 38 (or 38+P) from a 357 costs you a little bit of pressure.
* "Slow barrel" - a vintage S&W won't shoot as fast as a modern S&W or a Ruger, for example.
(BUT, I just looked again: they're reporting 856fp/s out of the Gold Dot 135+P, which is right in line where it should be. So the gun wasn't THAT slow. Huh. <scratches head>. I'm now wondering what kind of denim they had and maybe "did they get the gel formula right"?
---
If you have a snubby 357, you might want to consider one of the lower-powered 357 slugs. A few are "barely warmed up 38+P" but they're more than hot enough to make up the pressure difference. Likely the mildest of these will be the Speer 135gr "357Mag short barrel specialty load". I've shot these side-by-side with their 38+P cousins and recoil isn't that much different. Even in one of the ultra-light 357s, these should be controllable for most folks and will expand very well.
For an example of how critical velocity can be, see THIS data:
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_D...Data/38spl_HorndayFTX_SpeerGDHP_CorbonDPX.htm
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_D...Data/38spl_HorndayFTX_SpeerGDHP_CorbonDPX.htm