What if I shoot an agent or cop.

L

leedesert

New member
Let's say out of some kinda of mistake an LE team bust into my house unannounced. In defense of my family I open fire and kill some of them before I realize that they are cops.
What happens to me. Who is going to believe who in court.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
 
In that exact scenario, mistake or otherwise, I would say you would be brought out in a body bag.
Despite fault, if, for some God Awful reason, you do live through it, you are going to jail for a long time. Even if they did goof, they will not admit it, and they won't let you get away with being a "copkiller." You are a dead man. Period.


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Connecticut is the "Constitution" State
http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/beefclub
 
If they "bust" into your house, I hope you're wearing "Depends". The element of surprise is what makes these raids so successful. They will most likely have you eating carpet chunks before you could reach for any firearm.

The first thing a legitimate team will do, besides knocking your door off the hinges, is to identify themselves and order everyone inside to "freeze"! Even if they've made a mistake (which doesn't happen very often), you are far better off being calm and collected. Ask to see their warrant. Do what they say.

Chances are if such an event did occur, as they entered your house and saw you (the intended perp) reaching for a gun, you'd be in pretty deep doo-doo.

On the other hand, if you hear that these types of raids are being carried out regularly by men in black ninja suits and MP5's against law abiding folks for no other reason than to violate your rights, then by all means do what you need to do. But the odds will be stacked against you unless you regularly wear body armor and a gas mask while lying in bed, holding onto a switch to some Claymores.

Stay out of trouble, and just don't worry so much. Otherwise, you may be just a bit paranoid.

My guess is that we are a long way (in this country) from what you are worrying about.
 
Your nearest surviving relatives could sue on your behalf, though. They might be successful if it was a mistake (i.e. the house next door was the target). If, OTOH, you were in reality the reputed evil druggie, as reported by an "informant", then you will be painted with the alleged criminal brush, and juries think all alleged criminals are criminals, so your family would probably lose, even though you'd have the exact same theoretical legal rights in scenario #2 - I think - as in #1 (i.e. even if you are a criminal, you have a right to reasonable self-defense - your self-defense is reasonably if you ACTUALLY don't know they're cops - however, they will testify they "announced" quite loudly and repeatedly before you opened fire, so you must have heard it even if formerly in a deep sleep - and you're dead so how do you dispute their testimony?)
 
Yeah. "announced" so loudly and amid so many profanties that their "announcement" becomes unintelligible.

Can anyone shed some light on why these "announcements" always have to be shrieked at the tops of the agents lungs?

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“The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals. ... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.” -Alexander Addison, 1789
 
I opened this post as a discussion on the what if's. I don't think this would happen to me but neither do other people I keep reading about in the news.
You all may find it funny that I plan on becoming an LEO once I retire from the military.
 
Hmmm....

Haven't the "legitimate" criminal home invaders taken to yelling "Police! Search warrant!", too? How about when the home invaders are off-duty cops (this has happened here) wearing duty gear? What about all those sealed warrants? Hear DOJ's lookin' to do sealed covert warrants on people who have the audacity to try using encryption on their PC's...
 
I think the answer is that you would be in a LONG UGLY Court Battle, possibly a Criminal One.

The honest answer is that it would really depend on your district attorney's (county prosecutor, commonwealth attorney, wahtever you have) opinion. the DA's office would have to determine if any crimes were committed. State Law would obviously play a role as well. In almost every state/city/county you are within your legal rights to own a firearm and defend yourself in your home.

One sticky issue in some states might be:
______________________
Why did you shoot?

Becuase I was in fear for my life, I saw men with guns breaking into my home...

If you could see the guns, why could you not see the badges & insignias and why did you not hear them yelling "Police! Don't Move!"
_________________

Obviously, there are a lot of variables...


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-Essayons
 
A really bad case of heart burn will occur when f'ing with a SWAT team during a house raid. One that Rolaids can't cure! Save your heroics for the movies!
 
Consider this-If you resist to any degree you will likely be killed. And if you are killed you can be assured that your resistance and death will be characterized as the irrational act of an extreme right wing gun nut who would not comply with repeated requests from uniformed officers of the law in the exercice of their official duties.
Hows that for a legacy???

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Think about what Groundlevel said.
"Limited intellegence"
Nuff said and more dead!
If you are determined to force a perimiter in this manner you have already given a very dangerous order!
Hank
 
Yeah, the good side. Like the Aiken SC SWAT team that busted the teenagers with a gallon of koolaid. Limited intelligence? Granted-in all senses of the word. Or Kansas City, where they killed a man trying to defend his home. But that was justified wasn't it? He had six marijuana cigarette butts in the house. Clearly a major danger to society. Or the Hispanic man in Houston. Oops! No dope, no criminal record. Just a man killed trying to protect himself from those protecting and serving good guys. The Houston DA tried to say that a citizen has no right to protect himself from even illegal actions of the police.
 
Interesting... I was reading the Second Amendment Primer this weekend and in it, it stated that the very first police in the US occured in 1845. Prior to that the people were the police. More interesting is the fact that these first police officers, by law, were forbidden to carry guns. If they needed to use armed force they were required to gather up a body of citizens who all had arms to help them out. The citizens were required under law to obey these officers orders. Seems even in 1845 our forefathers considered the police as a standing army or a select militia. Now we have all sorts of different law enforcement that owe their loyalty to a paycheck. Please don't get me wrong, I still support our LEO's, but it is something to consider. Human nature being as it is, I can see sometime in the future where the Good LEO's are weeded out of the force to make way for those who are loyal to the powers that be.


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Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
 
What's wrong with this sentence?:

" . . . believe there is justified use of no-knock entry, believe there is a high probability of a violent encounter if the people inside know you're about to enter before you do, limited inteligence regarding who is inside and what weapons they may have."

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“The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals. ... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.” -Alexander Addison, 1789
 
Ground Level, you used the term "justified use of no knock entry". In my royal opinion, there can NEVER be for ANY REASON justified use of no knock entry. So evidence might get destroyed, tough. Always keep in mind that law enforcement is there for the benifit of the people, the people are not there for the benifit of law enforcement.

This might raise the ire of you LEO's, but that is how I feel. This is the first step towards the total subjection of society, one small step at a time. This can only lead to more WACO's and similar happenings.
 
Going off topic is fine. I wanted to see the response. I am use to seeing people respond to these no-nock entry stories with Rambo type comments like "I would shoot anyone who breaks into my house".
I thought instead of responding to a situation that has already happened, let's consider the what ifs. This scenerio scares me because if they came in my house, un-announced, and I was anywhere near my gun, I would be pulling it out fast. Wether or not I shoot won't matter because once they see me reaching guess what they will do.
BANG!! BANG!!
Does this make my actions wrong. Will the state or U.S. take care of my family when the bread winner is dead because he was defending his family.

I would like to think that a knock and a clear statement like "POLICE"!!! would precede any type of entry but judging by some news stories that is not happening all the time.
I can tell you one thing for sure.
When I become an LEO in 3 years I will not participate in any such activity. Even if it cost my job. I would rather work at Burger King then trample someones contsitutional rights without warrant.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
 
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