What happens when someone is shot?

No - I didnt know he had a weapon at all... I was hit and down before I knew what
happened. He was 100% with that one shot - yes. But thats all he got.
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Had you not been wearing a vest it would have been enough. His performance no matter how obtained was pretty good. It was MORE than enough. Your vest had no part on his perfomance. "Down before you knew what happened." Yup. that's how it works. No time for conflict management or verbal judo.
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Considering he fired that round over his shoulder while running away from me - I think it was a fluke he hit me.
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Flukes are damned deadly. Can you recall mentions of "Murphys's law?" Well you got O'Toole's law that says, " Murphy was an optimist." That is how it works in the real world. I' working on an "Anti-O'Toole Law drill." The same flukes work for you. It doesn't matter how you win..just win. Leave the formal organized efforts for the target shooters.
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Most people think that too.
My stance when I returned fire? I was on my back, I braced my pistol along the side of my right leg. 30 meters, low light, just been centerpunched, scored two hits which put the BG down. I think it was not a bad performance on my part... but thats just me.
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"Performance?" I think it was a FLUKE. How can we claim the bad guys have flukes and we don't? We seem to credit thier performance to luck and flukes and ours to some form of background training.
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I hope you dont add that to your Bad
Guys shoot better because of lack of training stats... not quite right is it?
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Was your HITS a case study in training? And how much training did he have? Who asked? Who knew? We still can't argue with his performance no matter how it got there.
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Yes, I fired 8 rounds for 2 hits, and he fired once for 1 hit... but then again, I walk on two legs and he hops on one. Who won?
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His "hit" rate is 100%. Yours is 25%. His was center mass. Yours was a leg? Your vest seems to be the deciding factor here, not shooting skills. Had we used shooting skills you would have lost big time. In fact your shooting skills had little to do with your survival in all honesty. It was a decision not related to shooting as such, but as to uniform apparel choices.
Bottom like it doesn't really matter what we do as long as we win. I had a cop here beat a guy half to death with a bat he fell against while in a violent fight with an offender. He couldn't get to his run and resort to a Louisville Slugger in the kids bedroom. A one shot stop we will note. Thug never saw it coming. A bunch of us had a black basketweave "bat holder" made for him and put the bat in it. He actually wore it out the door.You know, it didn't exactly look all that bad.
 
Hot Air +P. Hot Air.
What your point? You offer no better methods - your only study is watching 900 videos. I was on video and you were not there, and you can not grasp and I can not articulate everything that went on in my head - or the other guys.

Bad Guys shoot Better than the Good Guys because they dont Train. Your Tired +P... Very Tired.
My training has saved my life and the lives of several others who I can name by name. I put my stock in my training. I am alive after some frenzied hostile situations because not only was I trained - I was trained well. The guys we were up against are no longer availabe for comment. There is another member here on TFL that knows a lot more about these situations than he is willing to tell - but he knows very well that these guys were indeed hell bent on taking us out. Not only was it training - because they were trained as well - but BETTER training that let us win. And we won EACH TIME. Oh - they fired faster than we did for sure... but you cant miss fast enough to win.

:p

Read BLACKHAWK DOWN... Those fellas did real good faced with unbelievable overwhelming odds. Outnumbered like nothing seen since Custer's Last Stand - and they did extremely well.
Why was that?

Training.

Intense Training.

SIGHT - AQUIRE - FIRE.

Thats how you survive.


[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
Military engagements with longarms compared with self-defense with pistols?

Didn't we get our *sses kicked in Somalia?
 
Local small town hero nearby is the chief of police of Krum by-Gawd, Texas. Conrad answered a call on a domestic dispute that had been on-going for some months; he knew the folks. Hurridly arriving at the house that the ex-boyfriend was trying to break into, Conrad got hit as he exited his patrol car by a shot from the dark of 20 guage #4 buck. Shot perforated a fair amount of gut and removed a finger from his shooting hand, as I recall. Moving to some cover, Conrad fired a couple of shots at the muzzle blast with his .44. I think he got hit again with part of a pattern.

What he remembered thinking was that people often shoot high in the dark, so he kept his shots low. One hit the dirt about waist high behind the guy. One hit the guy high in the leg. One hit the barrel of the shotgun, traveled down the barrel to the load in the chamber, and blew off the end of the shotgun when that load was fired. After some hollering back and forth, the B.G. sat down and expired from blood loss from a cut femoral artery.

Bad guy was going to get into scared lady's house, and Conrad stopped it. Bad guy made a pretty decent attempt to kill Conrad, but our man remembered the first step in cure for a snakebite:

Kill The Snake!

You did well, George, even if you did just wing 'im! You *stopped* him, when you were already hit.

And shots to femurs DO put guys down!
 
Pluspinc: Yeah, those endorphines are great stuff; I broke my leg a few years back slipping on some ice. Both bones all the way thru, a couple of inches above the ankle. Not only didn't it start hurting for about 15-20 minutes, I actually stood up and tried to walk back to the house! (Thought I'd just sprained it...) Went right back down again, of course, and did a lot of vascular damage in the process, but anyone who'd been counting on that to put me out of action would have been in for a nasty suprise!

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
Nearly everything said in this thread supports the position of The Firearms Tactical Institute. A handgun bullet's stopping power is found in the tissue that it actually touches and destroys. The only sure effective way is through severe bleeding or upper spinal cord or brain tissue destruction.

Shot placement and adequate penetration, if you don't have these, you don't have much; unless of course the BG watches alot of television and knows that he is supposed to fall down when shot.

Handgus do kill the same way that arrows do. They just don't do it as quickly. It takes a large bore indeed to equal a three blade razorsharp broadhead that measures 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 in diameter and is guaranteed to penetrate through and through. Watch an archery hunting video and see how far the deer run after having their lungs punctured and their heart destroyed.

[This message has been edited by ellsworthtoohey (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
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