What happened with T/C sidelock rifles?

B

bamaranger

New member
I bought my first T/C sidelock rifle in the late 1970's, and another two in the mid-80's. I traded the Renegade away, but picked up a CVA Squirrel Rifle about the same time. Then the bowhunting bug hit hard, I put my sidelocks in the rack (clean, mind you) and only took them down now and again for inspection.

This fall, I got the itch to take a deer again with a muzzleloader, and went afield with the White Mtn Carbine. That took me to looking at T/C rifles again, and parts. I was shocked to learn that T/C does not make a single traditional rifle. Am I right about that? All "modern" inlines? I had no idea.

What happened to that segment of the market?

And, man alive, the asking price on T/C sidelocks and parts......incredible. Seems to me that indicator alone shows that there is still a strong interest in traditional rifles.....but with T/C out of the market, no domestic supplier of new quality sidelock rifles. Seems too that I read somewhere that the Italian and Spanish rifles are drying up too....CVA done as well?

There used to be a few T/C sidelocks in about every pawn shop I went into, most pretty rough, but salvageable. All gone now, I suspect for parts.

Do you think a base model sidelock, say something down the lines of the New Englander would still sell?

And....what do the guys up in PA, who are required to use flinters (still?) do for a quality rifle, but can't go the expensive custom build route?
 
When S&W bought TC, the bright boys w/ green eyeshades decided there was no money in the sidelocks (the one who brung`em to the dance), and so decided to abandon the flagship line. To tell you how dead it is, even Green Mountain has quit making replacement/drop-in barrels.

If you want an out-of-the-box sidelock of any reasonable quality these days, think Lyman Great Plains....
 
The last TC sidelock I saw at a LGS had an $800 hang tag. I bought a Lyman GPR kit for $315. TC's models were all compromise twist, I still own a few, so the GPR with the 60" twist out shoots them with pbr. That's why I'm not surprised at the price. What you save with pbr helps the financial picture, but an $800 price tag will sure test your commitment!
 
TC started getting stupid with their prices and then just went all out with the plastic inline stuff because no one no longer had any skills to learn how to use a traditional muzzleloader.
 
Seems too that I read somewhere that the Italian and Spanish rifles are drying up too....CVA done as well?
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Italian and Spanish guns are still going but CVA has stopped importing sidelocks. Traditions imports the same guns CVA used to import from Spain.
 
TC, like all manufacturing organizations, puts their money into products that produce the best return on the investment. With most states allowing in-line muzzle loaders in the late seasons, the number of hunters hunting these seasons is doing so with in-lines. It's basic economics, not the fact that everyone is unwilling to learn how to use and shoot side locks. In-lines are simple easier to use, shoot better for the most part, and there is not much learning curve to get them "deer accurate". I shot side locks for years in both cap lock and flint lock. I quit after shooting a bunch of deer because the fun factor got to the point where the un-fun factor won over (cleaning them after using black powder). It was just easier to use an in-line, sabots, and 209 primers.....with a scope. That's just the way it is. Just like compound bows vs. recurve bows, etc. Times change.
 
the traditions guns are not the same ones cva used. Not a whole lot of the parts will interchange, especially the lock and triggers. even the tang is different.
 
Keep the faith

What happened to that segment of the market?
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When 90% of the M/L market went into MML's, the SideLocks went flat. We had a renaissants back in the early 80's that was spurred by the Jeramiah Johnson movie and thought that the movie "The Revenant" would start another but it looks like that isn't going to happen. ..... ;)

Most folks today, just want the cheapest "Hunter" they can get, to extend the season. There are still a few of us that hold on to the traditionals. I use to be a TC fan and fortunately have a fair collection. The TC's are really not all that collectable but getting rare. There are still plenty of used ones out there and surprisingly, not selling all that well. They would be a good investment for a younger collector. ..... :)

If you still have a White Mountain Carbine, then hand on to it and keep it clean. You can still get "some" parts on Ebay which or interchangeable from some of the other TC SideLocks. ..... :)

Be Safe !!!
 
It is what I wish it wasn't

TC started getting stupid with their prices
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If so, then so has everyone else that makes a SideLock. Just can't compete with plastic-209 MML's that will easily bring down a WhiteTail at 100+ YDS. :rolleyes:

Be Safe !!!
 
At the end, tc was charging $800 for a TC Hawken. I was watching brand new hawken rifles sell on forums for $350 because they couldnt get much more out of them even though they had bought them and never shot them just a few months prior.

They priced themselves out of the sidelock business IMO.

Traditions, Lyman and Pedersoli sure aren't hurting for money it seems.
 
Price for me is a big deal and Lyman offers a good product. As an aside I also like them as additional barrels can be bought making it a bit like a T/C Contender.

Inlines just don't quite do it for me. It's not much more than a modern rifle. I actually would like a rifle meant for shooting longer range across fields and such, and I've been drawn to a scope as I liked them on the .270 Win I typically hunted with. However I'd attach a period correct Malcolm style scope and likely add a peep sight as back ups.

I've also decided I'll need a .50 cal barrel to bore to 28 ga.

I've also wanted a smaller bore for small game. With 15/16" flats it sure would be heavy even in .40 cal. I'd prefer more than a .32 but it seems a Ttaditions Crockett is also on my list.

If there was an American company that produced something similar I'd be fine with paying a bit more. But not Pederosoli more.
 
If so, then so has everyone else that makes a SideLock. Just can't compete with plastic-209 MML's that will easily bring down a WhiteTail at 100+ YDS.
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A round ball will bring down deer at 100+ yards.
 
Why their disappearing from the market place?
We traditionalists shooters should have bought more of them T/Cs when we all had the chance too. Although I for one gave it a good try. I own seven of their traditional products. One I shoot. The others to look at.:D
 
the traditions guns are not the same ones cva used. Not a whole lot of the parts will interchange, especially the lock and triggers. even the tang is different.
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They look the same right down to the two piece stock with the brass spacer on the Kentucky's. I just assumed they were.
 
you are correct on that part for the kentucky stock, but the locks, triggers, they wont drop in to a cva kentucky. They basically picked up the look and Ardesa cuts them and builds them for Traditions. Ardesa has some really darn pretty rifles, they made one called a mountain rifle but with walnut, just totally sleek and just a tad under 10lbs :eek: I almost bought one before I read the weight.
 
Lymans are $800 now? Holy cow! As to why these things are going up, look up Quantitative Easing and if you don't know what that is, go to YouTube and watch episode 1 of Mike Maloney's Hidden Secrets of Money.
 
T/C suffered a major fire just before the death the developer..

which unfortunately destroyed the BLUEPRINTS for most rifles.
Then S&W bought them and push just the encore and let the ML stuff disappear.

Just getting my two New Englanders 12GA and .50Cal reqady for MI primitive season.

Like I have a T/C Contender (1978) and using it with two Carbine barrels, one needs an extractor, I have to buy from other barrel suppliers.
 
Midway has Lyman Great Plains Rifles for $549. They're out of stock, but you can back order. Lyman Deerstalkers are $379.
 
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