what happened to gunsmiths
- Thread starter Newton24b
- Start date
I think most people calling themselves a gunsmith are in reality gun mechanics. Real gunsmithing requires a huge investment in tools, and machine tools. And the knowledge to use them. From hand tools, to lathes, and milling machines. What happened to gunsmiths? Two things IMO. First being plastic modular autoloaders. Second is the internet.
They are more then capable of making their own gigs and such. I made most of mine but I'm not a gunsmith. I just like making things.
Now take a good custom gunsmith. If they are any good at all, they are behind. Turn around is slow because they are good, and customers know it so he has more business then time.
So why do they buy jigs and tooling instead of making them??
Simple, it takes time. If a smith need a widget, and if he buys one, he can devote the time it takes to make the widget into producing his product. Often making more money in that time then the widget cost.
Now take a good custom gunsmith. If they are any good at all, they are behind. Turn around is slow because they are good, and customers know it so he has more business then time.
So why do they buy jigs and tooling instead of making them??
Simple, it takes time. If a smith need a widget, and if he buys one, he can devote the time it takes to make the widget into producing his product. Often making more money in that time then the widget cost.
smoakingun
New member
gunsmiths of today are, for a large part, not what they used to be. Todays gunsmiths seem to be more part swappers and bolt on mechanics than genuine smiths. Maybe the term "armorer" would be better used to describe most smiths today. The reason for this, in my opinion, is the quality of todays firearms is much higher, and therefore require less modification, and todays American is not a rifleman, not a competitive shooter, and is therefore quite content with what manufactures have to offer
Onward Allusion
New member
The real ones starved and died a while back. These days, we're left with armorers & part swappers. 
Even though I had a gunsmith neighbor when I was little (didn't know him, though), I have only had limited experience with them. I've only used the services of one, on two occasions. He refinished one pistol and replaced a broken part on another. I believe he had to fabricate the broken part himself because it was a very old S&W .22 revolver. So, they're out there. It kind of depends on what you expect a gunsmith to do.
I remember an article able August Pachmeyer in (probably) Guns magazine from about 50 years ago. He was of the old world craftsman school in which you had to build a gun from scratch with hand tools to be considered a master. But there may not be much call for those skills.
I remember an article able August Pachmeyer in (probably) Guns magazine from about 50 years ago. He was of the old world craftsman school in which you had to build a gun from scratch with hand tools to be considered a master. But there may not be much call for those skills.
Because doing it without a jig means you run a chance of trashing a part or a frame. I will do a lot of jobs freehand but when alignment and angles and depth are critical factors I don't like to take chances. And as mentioned time is money. If every time you need a jig or fixture and you have to fabricate one you're behind. I'm glad Brownells offers all these jigs at a reasonable price and fast delivery.
edward5759
New member
I started gun smithing back in the 1950s. I was given a block of steel and a file and for several months had to make a 1x1x1 cube. I was to clean the shop etc. until I had that block done.
Today in 2011 with a PhD in Engineering I am still learning and relearning some of the simple things.
A process that never ends. To many people want to start at the top and start working on guns right off. Well there is a lot to learn just to pick up a cleaning rod.
People would come into the shop and ask about a small shaped metal part, we would give them a quote and they would be turned off by the price.
But what they wouldn't know it was a hand fitted part, not a drop in part.
Many call themselves a Gunsmith. but what they are is an Armorer or parts changer
Some guys can tell me all sorts of crap about the M-4 but then have no idea at what spindle speed the chuck should turn when turning steel to moly! or make there own tap and die set out of screws and steel.
I saw white rubbing compound being put into a Taurus pistol. I asked why and the guy looked at me like a real prick, and said "Well if you were a smith you would know this is the way you give an action job to something you can't open without voiding the warranty". The kid was maybe 18 or so.
I know things change, I no longer work on hump back Brownings or Rebild .45 from a WWI.
Today in 2011 with a PhD in Engineering I am still learning and relearning some of the simple things.
A process that never ends. To many people want to start at the top and start working on guns right off. Well there is a lot to learn just to pick up a cleaning rod.
People would come into the shop and ask about a small shaped metal part, we would give them a quote and they would be turned off by the price.
But what they wouldn't know it was a hand fitted part, not a drop in part.
Many call themselves a Gunsmith. but what they are is an Armorer or parts changer
Some guys can tell me all sorts of crap about the M-4 but then have no idea at what spindle speed the chuck should turn when turning steel to moly! or make there own tap and die set out of screws and steel.
I saw white rubbing compound being put into a Taurus pistol. I asked why and the guy looked at me like a real prick, and said "Well if you were a smith you would know this is the way you give an action job to something you can't open without voiding the warranty". The kid was maybe 18 or so.
I know things change, I no longer work on hump back Brownings or Rebild .45 from a WWI.
Wider availability of aftermarket parts readily made, mass produced, and easy to install (stocks, drop-in trigger groups, barrels, sights, etc).
Guns are also more modular than ever before, so it's easier to swap parts at the user level as long as you have an intermediate knowledge of tools and proper uses (and some common sense).
Mechanical issues with guns are often corrected by the manufacturer's customer service department, whereas it used to have to be corrected by your local gunsmith.
Most rifles and shotguns are now made at the factory with drilled and tapped receivers for scope mounting. So you rarely have to have that done by a smith these days.
More DIY'ers are using internet and printed resources to accomplish tasks that used to be reserved solely for gunsmiths. Cutting chambers in new barrels, barrel swaps, parts upgrades, polishing, etc.
Due to advances in production technology, special tools that are required for various gunsmithing tasks are cheaper to produce, and therefore easier to afford for the average Joe.
Just a few of my observations/opinions on the subject.
Guns are also more modular than ever before, so it's easier to swap parts at the user level as long as you have an intermediate knowledge of tools and proper uses (and some common sense).
Mechanical issues with guns are often corrected by the manufacturer's customer service department, whereas it used to have to be corrected by your local gunsmith.
Most rifles and shotguns are now made at the factory with drilled and tapped receivers for scope mounting. So you rarely have to have that done by a smith these days.
More DIY'ers are using internet and printed resources to accomplish tasks that used to be reserved solely for gunsmiths. Cutting chambers in new barrels, barrel swaps, parts upgrades, polishing, etc.
Due to advances in production technology, special tools that are required for various gunsmithing tasks are cheaper to produce, and therefore easier to afford for the average Joe.
Just a few of my observations/opinions on the subject.
If they are asking you for that kind of stuff you are talking to the wrong people. I have never had my go to guys ask me for anything. I simply send them the gun tell them what I want done and they do it for a very fair price.
I echo what others are saying. If your "smith" is asking you for that stuff they are not a "real" gunsmith.
I echo what others are saying. If your "smith" is asking you for that stuff they are not a "real" gunsmith.
357 Python
New member
Gunsmiths are giong the way auto mechanics went. I had a 3rd cousin who was a mechanic years ago tell me at the time that there were few real mechanics that most of those calling themselves that were actually parts changers. Gunsmiths seem to making way for armorers. As an armorer I can do some repairs to Beretta 92 series pistols but I can't build on from scratch like a gunsmith should be able to do.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Good question. When I wanted trigger work done on my 11-87 I couldn't find a single one of our local "smiths" that would touch it. Liability was the claim. "Insurance won't allow me to do trigger jobs." Yeah, right. I sent it to a gun in Wisconsin, finally. I'm not too impressed with the work he did, but the trigger works and is a lot lighter.
boostedtt91
New member
i completly agree, the only "gunsmith" that is around here really can't do anything or wont do anything besides the complete basics like scope mounting. I asked him about doing a original scope mount like the sniper p/u scopes were on the Mosin Nagants and he refused to even consider it. Its a shame there aren't any real gunsmiths anymore that will do pretty much anything you want. I couldn't even find anyone to put a quad rail on my AR when i bought it cause i didnt want to buy the tools to use just once, but thats what i ended up having to do
Terminus009
New member
Gunsmith, heck! I can't even BUY a handgun in my town, let alone get one fixed or customized! Twenty years ago the opposite was true: I bought locally and when my Model 19 started acting up the smith I took it to (in town) didn't replace any parts, just did some adjusting and fixing. Cost me fifty bucks but he also smoothed out the trigger action just for fun. Ah well. I ain't got money for any more guns anyway: my off-the-shelf .380 will have to do.
TheNatureBoy
New member
What happened to gunsmiths? I only know of one who is a legitimate smith and two others who are more part swapers than anything else. The 3 of them live about two hours away from me. I'm hoping to learn how to swap parts from the two that I see on a regular basis. Consider this question. Where can one go to learn how to be a gunsmith? I'm not talking about some mail order course. I'm talking about a community college or some other institute of higher learning. The closest to me is some 4 hours away. What about a gunsmith who would be willing to teach you?
Pick up Jerry Kuhnhausen's shop manuals volume 1&2 for the 1911. Look at the measurements ( specs) for the pistol.
Would YOU give your say 1911 to a smith to have a beaver tail grip safety installed, frame is in need on being cut to accommodate the safety and have him do this by eye ans screw it up and tell you sorry I made a boo-boo. Why does a auto mechanic use a machine to align the front end of a car, air pressure gage for tires?
They are called tools of the trade. Look through Brownell's catalog and look at sight pushers. Why so many??? Or should the smith just bang away with the old hammer and punch, risk scratching/breaking parts and then have that demanding customer all ****** off due to damage that could have been avoided using the PROPER TOOL.
Proper tools save money time.
Fishing_Cabin
New member
I have seen a similar, but slightly different take locally. There are alot of people that claim to be "gunsmiths" offering various services, but they come down to being a parts changer. Any thing as simple as a basic park on a mag they still have to send out. Now, there is one real gunsmith that I am familier with, about 2 hours away that seems to focus on class 3 stuff and EBR style rifles.
The only actual gunsmith I have known about in my town is a lawyer who also really loves and knows firearms, of most any type like the back of his hand, and did stuff for others for fun for an average price. He has a full machine shop, blue and park tanks, and for his own fun he builds falling block rifles in various wildcat chamberings from scratch. He stoped doing work for others because they wanted everything done "right now" and for the "bottom dollar" price. If you needed a gun blued, give him time til he had say 5 or so to do, then come drop it off. Problem was people didnt want to wait, or they thought they were doing him a huge favor paying him $100 for a strip/reblue/reassemble, then they bad mouthed the guy for refusing work, etc. This lawyer just did the work on the side for fun, and mostly only tried to recover the material cost basically. Half the time if you knew him, and it wasnt a huge job, he would just say $10 bucks will cover it...He was and is the best I know of locally even though he doesnt do anything for others now, except for maybe something minor for a close friend.
The only actual gunsmith I have known about in my town is a lawyer who also really loves and knows firearms, of most any type like the back of his hand, and did stuff for others for fun for an average price. He has a full machine shop, blue and park tanks, and for his own fun he builds falling block rifles in various wildcat chamberings from scratch. He stoped doing work for others because they wanted everything done "right now" and for the "bottom dollar" price. If you needed a gun blued, give him time til he had say 5 or so to do, then come drop it off. Problem was people didnt want to wait, or they thought they were doing him a huge favor paying him $100 for a strip/reblue/reassemble, then they bad mouthed the guy for refusing work, etc. This lawyer just did the work on the side for fun, and mostly only tried to recover the material cost basically. Half the time if you knew him, and it wasnt a huge job, he would just say $10 bucks will cover it...He was and is the best I know of locally even though he doesnt do anything for others now, except for maybe something minor for a close friend.