What exactly makes a 1911 so much more expensive?

Dan Wesson Valor is a best value "top tier" 1911, hand fitted tool steel small parts.

http://cz-usa.com/product/dw-valor-45-acp-black-tactical-2-dot-tritium-sights-8-rd-mags/

Edit: Stainless 9mm 1911 retail ~ $1,700

One could spend a bit less $$$ for a 1911 and have something other than tool steel parts (MIM) if one is satisfied with the compromise.

My Glocks that are newer than ~2008 have a steel striker and extractor installed, like the Glocks made prior to 2008, because I'm not big on compromise.
 
OsbornK, I was just making a general statement, or perhaps just a guess, about average 1911 purchasers.

Perhaps neither one of us is typical. I bought my first 1911 when I was about 45 years old. It was a Tisas for under $400 and has given me no problems. The sights and trigger are basic, but it is surprisingly accurate. I am 50 now, and will retire in two years. :)
 
There are many 1911s in the $500 to $600 price range, the higher priced ones are the best known brand named ones, like a real Colt or a Kimber, also you have the Custom builders like Wilson Combat.
Also many like Springfield Armory that offer many,extra refinements that add to their cost.
 
Plastic takes a lot of overhead for molds and such, but once set up is dirt cheap and fast to produce. Steel takes longer to cut into shape, and as they say time is money. Additionally it takes more skilled workers to run the machines, so you're paying the operators more money for a longer time per unit.
 
As Jan Stevenson said in 1969, the 1911 is "a maze of little fink parts."

Later designs are laid out around industrial methods of stamping, casting, molding, and automatic machining.

Attempts are made to cut corners on those fink parts but some are less successful and some that may work ok are still rejected by traditionalists.

Ask Dan Wesson what grade of "tool steel" they use.
There are a lot of them.
 
When one has to start with metal plate stock, bar stock, and forgings, and remove metal from them with mills, that costs money, and one must necessarily use more parts in the design. Then there is all of the fitting.

That's what Browning and Colt were constrained to in the 1900 time frame.

No product engineer would use such materials and methods today unless price were no object.

That's not just a handgun thing-- it applies to cars, machines, aircraft, boats, appliances, tools, and mechanical linkages--and electronics, for that matter.

Today's engineers reduce parts count by combining parts in a way that could not be done in 1900. And they minimize the amount of material that must be removed.
 
i am 22 and prefer the 1911 over any striker fired or polymer framed handgun. i have had this 1911 since 20, and they have always been my favorite. if kept greased or oiled, steel will last almost forever, plastic or polymer will begin to degrade and get weak long before steel does
 
There is capitalism at work as well (not a bad thing). If there are people that will spend money on real or perceived "advancements" then more power to the people that will take that money. At some point there is the pride thing as well, "IIIIIIIIII have a $3000 _______. It is sooooooo much better/sexier than you $700 ______." Real or perceived? Can this guy out shoot the $700 gun? We are a culture mostly driven by Want, not need. God Bless America.

Honestly I always thought it was the cost of the Death Ray that I hear being inferred about when people talk about 45ACP. :D

Oh yeah, BTW I love mine :p
 
i am 22 and prefer the 1911 over any striker fired or polymer framed handgun. i have had this 1911 since 20, and they have always been my favorite. if kept greased or oiled, steel will last almost forever, plastic or polymer will begin to degrade and get weak long before steel does
__________________
Without the 2nd amendment, all other rights would not exist
Click to expand...

Interesting comment. I don't think polymers have been out long enough to make that statement with any certainty.
 
I fall into the "Cheap Bastich who won't pay over $500 for ANY gun" category ;)

So I look for high quality beaters, or good deals on oddballs...
also work on my own stuff, because I believe every Gun Owner
should be able to work on anything they own...just like the old days.
At its base, its all basic Machining/Metalwork,
and we used to learn those basics in high school metalshop...
advanced techniques in college/military/trade-school/etc...

The main reason pistols made in foreign countries like RIA are so inepensive,
is that their labor costs are far less than USA or EU labor costs...
hence the ablity to turn out Milspec good quality pistols for low cost.
Fun part is, you can put a few awesome WC/LB parts in,
and they'll give you nice single hole groups too ;)

"Milspec" when it comes to firearms...it simply means LOOSE TOLERANCES...
allows them to feed almost anything & work under less-than-optimal conditions
& switch parts with ease and minimal fitting with Army Armorer-Level training.
That's it in a nutshell.


SARCO carries 1911 frames starting at $119 on a regular basis.
They also sell build kits for the 1911 starting at $229...
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/451911autobuildkitlessframe.aspx
So basically you start with parts in a bag, and assemble everything yourself.
Because its Mil-Spec, even a blind chimpanzee (Marine) could do it...;)
 
Interesting comment. I don't think polymers have been out long enough to make that statement with any certainty.
Click to expand...

So far, all plastics degrade with time...
and heat/sunlight speed that process along with a quickness.

Want an example? Pick a hot, cloudless summer day.
Take a brand new SCCY/Keltec/polymer pistol
& leave it in the back window of a vehicle or dash of a car/truck/van for a day.
Film it with a high-res camera.
Take it out and shoot it...make sure you video that part...
The results will amaze you...and may require a hospital visit ;)

That's just advanced speed plastic degradation.
Granted, each pistol has a slightly different formula,
and individual owners do different things as reguards to storage and use...
but it all ends the same eventually.
 
It's most simple supply and demand and nothing else. Very high demand with a controlled supply.
Your DNA is a polymer. So is tanned leather. Steel is also man made and will start to degrade immediately without some kind of protection. Rust(ferrous oxide) can form in les than 24 hours. A plastic bag will last 500 years to forever. Polymers are not the same thing as plastic and are engineered for longevity.
Synthetic polymers date from the 19th Century. The very first synthetic polymer was called GUN COTTON(cellulose nitrate). The rubber in your tires is a polymer. First synthetic rubbers by polymerization date from 1907. Polyurethanes date from 1943.
 
Don't get all scientific on us. We all know that gravity, light speed, and everything about black holes is just"theory" and until we see an atom with our own eyes, I'm just going to believe that the earth actually sits on the Bach of a giant tortoise.

If I tried explaining that to my wife, I'd get mouthing but a glazed expression. She's not stupid, she just slept through science class.
 
OsbornK, I was just making a general statement, or perhaps just a guess, about average 1911 purchasers.

Perhaps neither one of us is typical. I bought my first 1911 when I was about 45 years old. It was a Tisas for under $400 and has given me no problems. The sights and trigger are basic, but it is surprisingly accurate. I am 50 now, and will retire in two years.
Click to expand...

Tallball, I suspect we are far from typical. I traded my brother my 12 gauge and 22 single shot rifle to my brother when I got married in 1968. I immediately broke my back that caused me to earn a college degree because I couldn't do manual work any longer. I graduated in 1971 and moved to the big city. My first employer told me that if I stayed with them and was careful with my money, I could retire at 55. I did and I did retire at 55 in 2003
. When I returned to my hometown, in 1999, I bought a 22 bolt action and kept buying guns until my current 13 settled in. The 1911 is the next to last gun I got (and the last I bought). I didn't buy a 1911 earlier because I thought they were all expensive and they are big and heavy. I should have done it long ago because it is my favorite shooter here deep in the mountains.
 
The very first synthetic polymer was called GUN COTTON(cellulose nitrate).
Click to expand...

Cellulose (found in plants and cotton) is an organic polymer. When cotton is soaked in a mixture of nitric acid and sulfuric acid, the OH group is replaced by NO2 (nitrogen dioxide). This brings additional oxygen into the cellulose making it easier to burn.

In that form, nitrocellulose is much like nitroglycerine and trinitrotoluene (TNT). Cellulose nitrate or nitrocellulose is a mild explosive and is used in gun powder. Nitrocellulose was the basis for the first smokeless gun powders.

Perhaps you were thinking of celluloid which is a "plastic" that is derived from nitrocellulose by adding camphor to it. Celluloid was used for motion picture film (often called nitrate based film - and highly flammable) and other products like billiard balls.
 
Last edited:
"a maze of little fink parts."
Click to expand...

You'll have to explain this to me. The word "fink" makes no sense in this context as the word "fink" is either a noun or verb and it's being used as an adjective in that sentence.

As a noun, fink means a contemptible person. As slang, it means a snitch, informer, etc.

As a verb, it means to fail to do something because of a lack of commitment or courage; or to tell the authorities about something, as in "Rocco finked to the warden on my escape plan."

But as an adjective? Please explain what a "fink part" is as this makes no sense - unless this is some sort of obtuse reference to the Ed Roth character "Rat Fink."
 
Last edited:
You're looking at a brand with no history making 1911s. I doubt that Bravo Company sells many at that price point because, frankly, it's ridiculous. You can buy some models of genuine Colt 1911s for under $800, and you can buy very serviceable 1911s from other makers for $500 (or a bit less).
Click to expand...
Yep, only the Bravo Company fanboys are going to pay that price for a gun with no history of 1911 manufacturing. They may be fine guns but why would I take a chance on one when they company may quit making them in six months. Rock River Arms produced quality 1911s but, when the demand for ARs went up a few years ago, they ditched the 1911.
 
Cost of materials and economies of scale. Poly is less expensive than steel. The cost of producing 1,000 1911's in 9mm is not the same as 20,000 in 45 acp.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top