What do you think of the TX requirement to inform a cop you are carrying?
- Thread starter azurefly
- Start date
Put yourself in the LEO's shoes. You're pulling someone over. This pisses people off. Consequently, it's not a stretch to presume you're about to deal with a pissed off, armed individual(s).
It's understandable then that this might make you a bit apprehensive as you approach the vehicle.
Show them your not one of these lunatic people by being courteous and up front. Put everyone's mind at ease, hope for a warning instead of a ticket/fine, and go about your day.
IMO: a non-issue. Its common courtesy - required or not. It's not an infringement; it's not even an inconvenience.
It's understandable then that this might make you a bit apprehensive as you approach the vehicle.
Show them your not one of these lunatic people by being courteous and up front. Put everyone's mind at ease, hope for a warning instead of a ticket/fine, and go about your day.
IMO: a non-issue. Its common courtesy - required or not. It's not an infringement; it's not even an inconvenience.
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Well stated.
Law Enforcement are doing a job that is generally underpaid, under appreciated and dangerous. It is a job that I chose not to do. I respect those who choose to place themselves in harms way for the good of the community.
If an officer comes to my car after pulling me over my overhead light will be on (if it is dark), my car will be in park with, my hands will be on the steering wheel in the 10 and 2 position and I will have my Drivers license, Concealed Carry Permit, and Insurance papers in in my left hand. When the officer approaches I will announce that I have a permit and the weapon is on my right hip. I don't want any misunderstandings. I respect the job and the dangers it entails, and I do not feel threatened by law enforcement. I have always had very courteous professional interaction with LEO officers (although I don't intentionally speed so I am almost never pulled over).
Charles
Thanks for sharing, ppcmaster, . . . and your post is the exact reason I have absolutely no aversion to letting the LEO know up front that I do have a .45 ACP.
Having had an experience on the wrong end of a .45 one time, . . . I really have no desire to experience a .357, 9mm, or .40 to go along with it.
Only been stopped once carrying, . . . lousy safety check, . . . young guy, . . . no big deal, . . . everyone knew what was going on, . . .
May God bless,
Dwight
Having had an experience on the wrong end of a .45 one time, . . . I really have no desire to experience a .357, 9mm, or .40 to go along with it.
Only been stopped once carrying, . . . lousy safety check, . . . young guy, . . . no big deal, . . . everyone knew what was going on, . . .
May God bless,
Dwight
Doubletaptap said:
azurefly said:
Doubletaptap said:
If I were a cop, I'd be smart enough to realize that I would be finding out ONLY from those who didn't mean to use a gun against me that they had a gun. Those who were going to try to use it criminally against me -- or who just were in criminal possession of a gun and didn't want to get caught at it -- well, they just won't say anything.
I notice that your defense of the requirement is just a parroting of the silliness that others have offered. It fails utterly to deal with the fact that ONLY those who don't mean the officer any harm are going to admit to having a gun on them (licensed or not). I simply do not agree that what you specified is a "real-world practical benefit" either to the cop or anyone else.
Would you please stipulate what you feel is so great about the law -- without silly references to guns falling out (
) or feelgood "they deserve to know" baloney?If cops you might harm because you have a gun "deserve to know" if you have a gun, why not require licensees to inform the 7-11 clerk as well? Think of how many convenience store robberies we'll prevent!! :barf:
-azurefly
The reason to tell the LEO you are armed is so that he doesn't come across your firearm on his own. If he detects your firearm and you have said nothing to that point, you will be looking down the barrel of his firearm and he will assume you to be an armed BG. Lots of bad things can occur from this point onward. Within minutes, you could be looking down a dozen barrels. One stupid mistake on your part or any of the officers part and you are history.
trip20 said:
Way to paint the CCWing public as the kind of hotheads who are going to shoot an officer because they're pissed off at getting pulled over.
Aren't you counting on the same person who is pissed off at getting pulled over, who is also armed, to then politely inform the cop that he's carrying a gun?
My point is that the person who is a danger because he's pissed off and armed WILL NOT be one who tells the cop he's carrying. He'll just be shooting.
Now, with that said, I have to admit that I am partially coming around to the idea of why people say they would admit they're carrying (apart from those places where it is an actual legal requirement, I mean). Here's why:
My typical mode of carry is not IWB, it's in a bag that can be carried. There is ZERO CHANCE of an officer seeing my gun by accident. All he'll ever see is a nondescript shoulder bag sitting on the seat. So I've been viewing this issue not from the perspective of someone who has a gun IWB that may poke out as he goes for his insurance card, but from the perspective of a guy whose gun is concealed fully unless he wants it shown.
I have been stopped in Florida about 6 times in the nine years I've lived here. I think I was armed every one of those times; NOT ONE of those times did I inform the cop who stopped me that I was armed, and not once did any of them ask if I was. If asked, I'd be inclined to say, "Officer, I am licensed by the state of Florida to carry a concealed firearm, and there is one in that zippered pouch over there on the passenger seat. Please let me know what you'd like me to do." (I would mention the license BEFORE mentioning the gun, by the way.)
No one has told me for certain whether Florida law enforcement officers are able to get data that connects the license plate (vehicle registration) with a CHL holder. So I don't know if the cops who stop me know I'm licensed; and anyway, a cop stopping a car and running the plate does not necessarily know that the driver is the person to whom the car is registered (assuming the reg. links the car to the CHL).
I still maintain that apart from covering the possibility that a good guy's gun inadvertently prints or flashes, there is no utility to a cop knowing that the stop has a gun. Once again: the criminal won't admit he has a gun, and the good guy who admits it won't be the type to be a danger to the cop in the first place.
The single benefit to having a CHL holder inform the cop, in my view, is to avoid a situation where the gun the CHL holder has not told the cop about flashes and makes the cop nervous.
-azurefly
azurefly said:
Are you kidding me? Congratulations for pointing out exactly what I'm not saying.
Stop putting words in my mouth. I was not directly, indirectly, intentionally, or unintentionally painting the ccw'ing public as a bunch of "hotheads who are going to shoot an officer".
How in the heck did you derive that theme from my post? Do you have to insight an argument at every opportunity?
I was speaking about how the general public (via use of the word "people", in lieu of "CCW'ing public") can become irritated or upset under the circumstances of being pulled over for a traffic violation.
azurefly said:
I'm not counting on anyone to do anything. I simply answered your question (which is also the title of your initial post), by stating my reasoning (not anyone elses reasoning) behind not having an issue with informing LEO of my weapon (whether required or not).
Sorry for all the extra emphasis and (...), but if I don't over-explain everything, I fear you'll then assume I'm saying something grossly exaggerated compared to what I actually mean. Like you've done with the "paint the CCW crowd" comment. Utterly amazing, azurefly.
azurefly said:
Which is exactly why -- as a common courtesy by good folks like you and me -- we'll be the ones informing the police officer; required or not.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Compliance within the law keeps my CHL from getting suspended.
I don't think you have things straight. First of all, your obligation is to notify the officer that you are carrying if you are carrying. You don't have to produce the CHL and DL until requested.
Second, as for being the legal owner and carrier of a gun, there is nothing that says you have to be the legal owner of the gun you are carrying and that isn't information you are required to inform law enforcement. You can carry a borrowed handgun.
I don't see why this is such a gripe. Do you have a lot of run-ins with law enforcement such that this is a burden to you? Of all the CHL-related laws, is this what bothers you most or just one of many? I can think of many laws more problematic concerning concealed carry other than those associated with informing an officer I am carrying.
pickpocket
New member
Double Naught Spy said:
HAHA! Quite possibly the most intelligent and straightforward explanation yet.
DNS: Why is it a gripe? Because I don't like the fact that legal carry of a gun is something I have to divulge to a person who may very well have a personal problem with that very right I exercise.
The very fact that a CHL holder has to inform the cop if he's carrying a gun stigmatizes concealed carry. Why not require anyone ever convicted of a violent felony to immediately tell the cop? He's far more likely to be a danger. And if he doesn't do so, and the cop runs his name and comes up with the history, you can bust him right there for not complying with the requirement to advise the cop of his record.
Do I have a lot or run-ins with the law that make this a big issue for me? No, and I already stated that it has NOT been a big issue for me. If you were paying attention you'd know that I have said I live in Florida and the law does not require me to notify the cop I have a gun. In six stops, I have never done so, and it has never become an issue.
Is it my only gripe about CHL requirements? Hell no. I dislike the prohibitions about carrying here or there, as though I'm a dangerous person in a post office, polling place, etc. but not in a supermarket or public park. I dislike the fees I must pay to exercise what I view to be my right. (Do we pay to vote? Pay to speak? Pay to worship?) Do you really want me to start a thread about every single gripe I have? Do the things I start threads about have to pass your inspection and be about gripping, supremely important issues before I may post them? I didn't realize I was not free to start a thread unless it was about the subject of my most pressing three issues as a gun owner.
-azurefly
The very fact that a CHL holder has to inform the cop if he's carrying a gun stigmatizes concealed carry. Why not require anyone ever convicted of a violent felony to immediately tell the cop? He's far more likely to be a danger. And if he doesn't do so, and the cop runs his name and comes up with the history, you can bust him right there for not complying with the requirement to advise the cop of his record.
Do I have a lot or run-ins with the law that make this a big issue for me? No, and I already stated that it has NOT been a big issue for me. If you were paying attention you'd know that I have said I live in Florida and the law does not require me to notify the cop I have a gun. In six stops, I have never done so, and it has never become an issue.
Is it my only gripe about CHL requirements? Hell no. I dislike the prohibitions about carrying here or there, as though I'm a dangerous person in a post office, polling place, etc. but not in a supermarket or public park. I dislike the fees I must pay to exercise what I view to be my right. (Do we pay to vote? Pay to speak? Pay to worship?) Do you really want me to start a thread about every single gripe I have? Do the things I start threads about have to pass your inspection and be about gripping, supremely important issues before I may post them? I didn't realize I was not free to start a thread unless it was about the subject of my most pressing three issues as a gun owner.
-azurefly
You're legally driving your car. It has a current license plate. Why do you need to show a driver's license to prove you are legally driving your car? Only an illegal person is going to run.
Seriously, who cares if the cop approves of your CCW or not. It is legal and he cannot do anything about it. The most he can do is give you a ticket for whatever he stopped you for.
HK, if the cop is hostile to my right to carry, he might well put me at gunpoint for the rest of the duration of the stop, which severely increases the possibility that I will come to harm; he may then be itching for an excuse to rough me up or haul me in or "find something else amiss," no?
-azurefly
-azurefly
chaplain john
New member
Amen
Raptor5191 and Lawdog I'll say a hearty amen to your posts.
1. I have only been pulled over once while carrying... That was a very unpleasant experience. I was a truck driver and it was my habit to swing down and speak with the officer on the ground when pulled over (I always waited until they were in a position to see me well when I climbed down). On this occasion my vest swung back exposing the S&W on my hip. Yes, the one I hadn't informed him of... I froze when he ordered me to, the muzzle of his weapon behind my ear spoke much louder order than his voice, and told him to "please lift it" and I would show him my permit. We came to an understanding and I went on my way a much wiser man. BTW He only wanted to warn me about the boards that were working out the back of my load of lumber.
On my next encounter with an officer while packing I informed him, produced my CC Permit and the meeting was much more pleasant.
2. It is all about going home to the wife and kids at the end of the day!!!
I have now left driving the truck and running from the "call to preach". I answered the call, becoming a LE Chaplain in the process, and found out from hard experience how much it is about going home to the family. We lost one of the guys in my "congregation" last year... LOD
I pray you DO keep on going home to the family at end of shift.
Raptor5191 and Lawdog I'll say a hearty amen to your posts.
1. I have only been pulled over once while carrying... That was a very unpleasant experience. I was a truck driver and it was my habit to swing down and speak with the officer on the ground when pulled over (I always waited until they were in a position to see me well when I climbed down). On this occasion my vest swung back exposing the S&W on my hip. Yes, the one I hadn't informed him of... I froze when he ordered me to, the muzzle of his weapon behind my ear spoke much louder order than his voice, and told him to "please lift it" and I would show him my permit. We came to an understanding and I went on my way a much wiser man. BTW He only wanted to warn me about the boards that were working out the back of my load of lumber.
On my next encounter with an officer while packing I informed him, produced my CC Permit and the meeting was much more pleasant.
2. It is all about going home to the wife and kids at the end of the day!!!
I have now left driving the truck and running from the "call to preach". I answered the call, becoming a LE Chaplain in the process, and found out from hard experience how much it is about going home to the family. We lost one of the guys in my "congregation" last year... LOD
I pray you DO keep on going home to the family at end of shift.
Chaplain John,
Of course we all want our good men and women in law enforcement to "go home to their families at the end of the day."
Sometimes you will see people here cynically mocking that line because, well, sometimes that goal is what is used as a rationale for some unbecoming behavior on the part of law enforcement personnel, and as a rationale for the abridgment of certain rights supposed to be retained by the People.
In particular, of late, it seems to be used as the rationale for violent, dynamic "no-knock" warrant service that goes in with a VERY heavy hand, now-and-then killing innocent residents, and the reasoning is, if you hit unsuspecting warrant subjects so fast they don't know what's going on, it's easier to subdue them without them being able to respond with force.
We have seen where that can lead; and often the reason for the action being taken as such is that it makes it more sure that the officers are going to go home at the end of their shift...
-azurefly
Of course we all want our good men and women in law enforcement to "go home to their families at the end of the day."
Sometimes you will see people here cynically mocking that line because, well, sometimes that goal is what is used as a rationale for some unbecoming behavior on the part of law enforcement personnel, and as a rationale for the abridgment of certain rights supposed to be retained by the People.
In particular, of late, it seems to be used as the rationale for violent, dynamic "no-knock" warrant service that goes in with a VERY heavy hand, now-and-then killing innocent residents, and the reasoning is, if you hit unsuspecting warrant subjects so fast they don't know what's going on, it's easier to subdue them without them being able to respond with force.
We have seen where that can lead; and often the reason for the action being taken as such is that it makes it more sure that the officers are going to go home at the end of their shift...
-azurefly
I agree with this one. Fortunately, I haven't been pulled over since having my CHL, but several of my friends carry and have lead feet and have been pulled over as a result. None have gotten tickets and all report a friendly encounter. The $250 buy-in for a CHL might be worth having just to increase your odds of dodging a ticket, even if you don't carry
. Of course there are tons of other CHL folks who have gotten tickets anyway, but hey - doesn't hurt to try I have no problem letting an officer know I'm carrying - if the position was reveresed, I would sure like to know to avoid any potential unnecessary incidents.