What do you think about this?

[Al Norris]

Should Iran develop nuclear weapons, I can almost guarantee that some US city (plural? possibly) will be enveloped within a mushroom shaped cloud. This, before they attack Israel. There are many reasons why Iran would do this, and for them, the reasons are quite logical.

• They believe such an act would cripple the American people with fear.
• They believe that America was so cowed by Hiroshima and Nagasaki that we would never retaliate in a like manner.
• They believe that such an attack would demolish the USA'S economic structure, thus preventing retaliation, even if we had the nerve.
• They believe that we would "circle the wagons" and withdraw all our troops from the entire world, in order to protect ourselves.
• With the US out of the picture, they could concentrate upon Israel.

Depending upon who sits in the oval office, they may be right.

If nothing else, remember one thing: The fanatics in power in Iran are more than willing to put the above to the test. They are more than willing to destabilize the economy of the entire world, for their core belief in the domination of Islam as both religion and culture.

 

[WINSTON THE WOLF]

I honestly find it rather disgusting that when Iran does a missile test showing that they COULD strike against Israel...everyone is up in arms..but when Israel launches an training mission that shows only too well that it could strike against Iran...everyone is silent. As an advocate of strict neutrality when it comes to conflicts between other nations I feel that either ignoring them both equally, or railing against them both equally is the only acceptable response.

Danzig, I couldn't agree with you more!!!!


Ron Paul *Iranians Tested Missiles AFTER Israel had WAR GAMES!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1y47K29J1o

 

[44 AMP]

At the risk of a flamefest....

Has anyone considered the real reason we still have troops in Iraq is so that we have the assets in the area when they are needed to take out Iran?

 

[Huntergirl]

Yeah, I thought of that too. I'm also guessing that Iran is testing a delivery system for a nuke to Israel. This is a "no kidding" time, and I don't think Rice's warning will stop them. Iran is hellbent on destroying Israel. And I hope that Israel does a pre-emptive strike, because the USA will deeply regret intervening if Israel is hit. Yet America will also deeply regret its previous efforts to restrain Israel if Israel IS hit There are too many anti war Americans willing to point fingers at the current state of our economy as a rationale for not intervening. Israel needs to act quickly or they could soon be vaporized. I also believe that Israel doubts America's williness to intervene if they are hit, and this may become the priority of considerations in doing a pre-emptive strike.

 

[BreacherUp!]

Iran is not a treat to America

I beg to differ. Iran has been fighting a proxy war with the US through Hizbollah for decades. Hizbollah is controlled by the IRGC, and they are controlled by the clerics. Hizbollah was responsible for more US deaths than any other terrorist organization prior to 9/11.

 

[nate45]

Overblown hyperbole

Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said that Israel must be "wiped off the map".

First of all he never said that, he quoted Khomeini that "the occupation regime over Jerusalem should vanish from the page of time."

"The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] from the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)."

I know what you're thinking nates wrong cause Hannity and the other donks in the media say 'wiped off the map' 50 times a day.

They don't speak Farsi and neither do you, the AP or Rueters or whom ever put out a BS story and they all run with it.

As a matter of fact, Ahmadinejad is a non-entity. The Iranian "president" is mostly powerless. The commander of the armed forces is the Supreme Jurisprudent, Ali Khamenei. Did you know that?

Even if he really did say it worrying about what Ahmadinejad says is like worrying that the US military will act on the orders of the secretary of the interior. Ahmadinejad cannot declare war on anyone, or mobilize a military. So it doesn't matter what he says anyway.

The reason most of you believe Iran is a big threat is because thats what they want you to believe.

Just like they got you to believe Iraq was a big threat.

 

[Huntergirl]

OK, time will tell.

 

[DesertDawg]

Unless I am mistaken, Iran (Under Ayatollah Khomeini) declared war on the USA back in 1978. In fact, when the militant Iranian students stormed and took over the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, that was, indeed, an "act of war" (Embassies are the "sovereign property" of whatever nation is residing in them, not the "host" nation).

Also, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ("The mouse") has stated that the "evil" nations of Israel AND the USA will be targetted WHEN/IF they are able to get nuclear weapons.

Lastly, the Iranians have numerous nuclear processing facilities that are within residential areas...including some that are supposedly UNDER privately-owned residences. They are aware of "pin-point" bombing accuracy, so if Israel (or the USA) does send military aircraft in, the "collateral damage" of civilians will be used in an attempt to incite the other "unfriendly" nations in the region. Russia has also sided with Iran, at least to a certain extent, for they have invested many Rubles in the Iranian infrastructure and military facilities.

 

[Al Norris]

The reason most of you believe Iran is a big threat is because thats what they want you to believe.

Just like they got you to believe Iraq was a big threat.

nate45, were you around when I and a few others were protesting the build-up for Iraq, over at THR? I never believed they (Saddam) were a clear and present danger, as Bush and his administration claimed. There was never a need for the pre-emptive strike.

So no, your assumption that those of us that see Iran as a threat, saw Iraq also as a threat, because that's what we (they) (made us) want to believe.

Iran is a threat because of the reasons I have already posted (Care to address those issues?). Those reasons are not all inclusive. Iran, having nuke capability, would become a clear, immediate and present danger.

As for Ahmadinejad, while he may be a non-entity, he is the mouth of the Ayatollah. Both he and Ali Khamenei will say and do whatever the ruling clerics tell them to do.

One last note. The wording of, "Jerusalem should vanish from the page of time," verses "wiped off the map," is pure semantecs. The meaning is crystal clear.

 

[Creature]

Tehran, May 14th, 2008:

"The Zionist regime is dying," Ahmadinejad said in a speech in the northern city of Gorgan, referring to Israel. "The criminals imagine that by holding celebrations ... they can save the Zionist regime from death."

"They should know that regional nations hate this fake and criminal regime and if the smallest and briefest chance is given to regional nations they will destroy (it)," said Ahmadinejad.

 

[Creature]

Iranian tests missiles after an Israeli exercise. No big deal?

Israel moves some conventional forces around their country and call it an exercise. Iran could have chosen to respond by doing the same with their own conventional forces.

But instead, Iran chooses to launch a missile capable of striking far outside their borders. Is that an equal and appropriate response? Is that a justifiable response?

 

[nate45]

Iran is a threat because of the reasons I have already posted (Care to address those issues?). Those reasons are not all inclusive. Iran, having nuke capability, would become a clear, immediate and present danger.

Why would Iran assume any of the things in your post? After 9/11 we attacked Afghanistan and invaded Iraq, but despite that now they believe if they nuke a major US City we will take off running and not attack them?

They have a puny air force, a weak army and if they ever eventually develop a nuclear weapon they will have about a 10,000th the nuclear capability of the US or less, they wouldn't last 48 hours against us or Israel.

So given all that, you want me to believe that they would proceed anyway, because their all crazy fanatics who would rather be totally and utterly defeated than continue to let Israel exist?

The whole premise is based on iffy intelligence anyway, on Iran's nuclear program and how far away from a bomb they probably are. It's a lot of crystal ball-gazing that accepts the premise that we have the right -- indeed, the duty -- to launch an unprovoked attack on a country because it might, at some point, develop a nuclear capacity.

One last note. The wording of, "Jerusalem should vanish from the page of time," verses "wiped off the map," is pure semantecs. The meaning is crystal clear.

I think there is a distinction and the whole purposeful way it is used to frame the debate and paint Iran as a country led by a madman a 'Hitler in our time' because painting them that way is crucial to the plan.

The nuclear mad-man story is very important. Without that, the whole thing falls apart. You can forget about the moral and legal arguments against a unilateral attack; without the mushroom clouds the cost/benefit ratio is ridiculous, we know that the consequences of attacking Iran would be incredibly serious; both the loss of blood (on both sides) and the economic impact would be huge.

So they must promote the threat of WMD and a possible attack on US soil(why does that sound familiar)? Or instead of having an extremely hard time selling attacking Iran they won't be able to sell it at all.

 

[BreacherUp!]

They have a puny air force, a weak army and if they ever eventually develop a nuclear weapon they will have about a 10,000th the nuclear capability of the US or less, they wouldn't last 48 hours against us or Israel.

So thought Israel about Hizbollah before attacking into southern Lebanon. They are a Persian military (to include para militaries) vice an Arab one. Big difference

So given all that, you want me to believe that they would proceed anyway, because their all crazy fanatics who would rather be totally and utterly defeated than continue to let Israel exist?

Thinking like an American, you'll never understand. Entire battalions are trained by the IRGC to conduct suicide operations.
Simply detonating one small yield nuclear weapon in Israel or the US would be a total victory in the eyes of that regime, regardless of the eventual retaliation. The people of that country have no say

 

[TwoXForr]

Let me see a possible nuclear warhead on a missle or two against the oil fields of Kuwait and the Saudi. Wait arent the Kuwaitis and Saudis Muslims, yes but are the Muslim enough for the Clerics in Iran.

Hmmm that might theathen some US intrests a bit. If you think $4.00 a gallon is a bit much wait until OPEC production is cut from the oil fields being radioactive. Not to mention would you like the Iranian Clerics to be as rich as the Saudi Princes. At least the Princes and thier families like to shop in New York city.

Do they have the bomb, maybe not yet, are the working on it, you bet, everyone wants one, if just to scare thier neighbors by saying I got one and you dont.

 

[Al Norris]

So given all that, you want me to believe that they would proceed anyway,

You are free to believe however you want.

Thinking like an American, you'll never understand.

I would add... It is hardly the only paradigm in town. We make the biggest mistakes when we think that others think the same way we do.

 

[Creature]

They have a puny air force, a weak army and if they ever eventually develop a nuclear weapon they will have about a 10,000th the nuclear capability of the US or less, they wouldn't last 48 hours against us or Israel.

You seriously underestimate Iran's capability...and resolve.

 

[44 AMP]

A friend of mine...

Who I worked with since 1982, and trust way more than I do the media or the govt, spent a year in Iraq, finding and securing nuclear material. Lethal level radiation sources (mostly Cobalt-60 in the 1200R/hr dose rate range) as well as uranium. He was part of a team of experienced radiation workers we sent over there (at a 60% increase in base pay, plus benefits) to do just that.

It has never been reported in the popular media, and likely never will be. All they can say is that the UN inspectors couldn't find any weapons program.

being a little bit familiar with the industrial side of manufacturing special nuclear material, I doubt the UN inspectors could find their butts with both hands.

During Desert Storm, Saddam's air force fled to Iran (even though they were the enemy, and had been fighting each other for years) I believe there is a very good possibility that Saddam's weapons material left Iraq, and went either to Iran or Syria (and from there to Iran maybe?) before the UN or anyone else from outside got to look for it.

The Iranians say they have a nuclear program. We know that they have gotten at least some of the needed equipment from other nations.

because of what was not "found" in Iraq, we will likely wait until they actually detonate a bomb before we take serious action, due to the media/leftists working very hard on public opinion, for the last few years.

Somehow, I don't think the Israelis will wait quite that long.

time will tell

 

[roy reali]

One Weapon

I thought just one of our subs could turn a large area into a parking lot.

 

[Playboypenguin]

Who I worked with since 1982, and trust way more than I do the media or the govt, spent a year in Iraq, finding and securing nuclear material. Lethal level radiation sources (mostly Cobalt-60 in the 1200R/hr dose rate range) as well as uranium. He was part of a team of experienced radiation workers we sent over there (at a 60% increase in base pay, plus benefits) to do just that.

I was in the first Gulf War and have many friends still involved in the second one...you need to find friends that do not lie to you quite so much.

 

[shortwave]

Clearly Iran has developed and continues to develope nuclear capabilities that they`re not supposed to be doing. Upsetting the U.N. with a confirmed total (to date )of approx. 3500 known Iranian nuclear reactors is something for Israel and U.S. to be concerned with. I believe that, just maybe the U.N. can finally see the handwriting on the wall with the threats against Irael and U.S, nuclear capabilities Iran has developed and the testing of the long range missiles by Iran, that before long U.N. may feel obligated to step in and do something to avoid a full out nuclear attack. Its clear Irans not paying any attention to U.N. sanctions against them. Hope they don`t wait to long. If they do, IMHO, we will be bad guys again cause alot of innocent people will suffer.