What do you say...

[Scorch]

Finally, a thread with some intellectual stimulation.

The Constitution did not give anyone any rights and does not guarantee any rights. It simply recognizes and accepts the Bill of Rights as amendments to the original text.

The Bill of Rights (the first amendments to the Constitution) does not confer any rights either, it simply states that these rights are inalienable (cannot be taken away from mankind). This all falls back on the reasonong of the Humanist movement, that believed that men have certain rights just by being born, by existing. It was a radical idea back in the 18th Century, and is still not widely accepted.

BTW, Jefferson wanted to have language in his draft of the Constitution that recognized ALL men (black, white, Amerinds, Asians, etc.), but the Founding Fathers were having none of that. The economy relied on low-wage and slave labor too much, and to do so would have raised the prices of goods in the Colonies and reduced profits.

 

[Desert Heat]

I still think that back then, men had backbones and stood up for there beliefs and had interlectual debats on them. Now, it is all affirmative action, and everyone is perfect and nobody is flawed.

You can argue that the COnstitution and Bill of Rights are not perfect, fine. But, it is a hell of a lot bettter foundation than any other country was founded upon. You can say that the people who wrote it were not perfect, fine. But, if the country was to sit down now and write a constitution, it would be nothing like the one that was written and I don't think the country could unite enough to actually do so.

Back then, real men stood up for a common cause and did what was right, no they were not perfect, but when they wrote it, they put some of the greatest minds of all time together and wrote the greatest document ever written.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it is the general ideas from that time still transfer over to today. We have the freedom to write on this forum and say what we think. We have the freedom to assemble, and gather in masses to vent our frustrations. Those ideas were radical then, and still even radical today. I love my country and respect the foundation it was created upon. I have more respect for this country the most people do, and we need to start uniting more before it gets split apart and collapses and the very country I loved so much is gone. I am just old fasioned I guess.

Have you ever read it in full. Nobody writes or talks like that anymore. THe articulation was more of a fine art than a lanuage. THere will never be another Ben Franklin or George Washington, and the country will never be united to a common cause like it was then.

You can knock those men and the document they wrote, but you are only knocking the very foundation of our very foundation. Times were different then and people did different things, but we have changed as whole and tried to improve ourselves.

 

[Pointer]

So the generation of the 50s simply percieved segregation as right?

Yet more "wormtonguing"...

The generation of the 50's knew it was wrong and most of us said so openly!!

The perception, mostly in the South, was that it was socially unacceptible to protest "openly" about how the blacks were being treated... this is not a question of right or wrong... it is a question of courage versus cowardice...

But, Liberals never have understood this concept, because they practice "denial" and "worm-phrasing" in almost everything they do...

 

[Redworm]

Yet more "wormtonguing"...

The generation of the 50's knew it was wrong and most of us said so openly!!

The perception, mostly in the South, was that it was socially unacceptible to protest "openly" about how the blacks were being treated... this is not a question of right or wrong... it is a question of courage versus cowardice...

But, Liberals never have understood this concept, because they practice "denial" and "worm-phrasing" in almost everything they do...

lol you really can't pass up the chance to make a comment on my username. call it whatever you want but I'm still right

Yeah, many in the generation of the 50s openly said it was wrong but certainly not the majority and it wasn't until a few brave black leaders stood up for their rights that the rest of the generation really gave a damn. It wasn't mostly in the south, by the way. It was all over the country. Racism is rampant in every major city in America and across suburban and rural areas from sea to shining sea.

What about the generation a century earlier? They percieved slavery as perfectly ok and this was practically worldwide. The generation a century before that generally percieved monarchies as acceptable. Also worldwide. The generation a century before that percieved persecution of heathens as perfectly acceptable.

Deny all you want but every generation thinks the following one is less moral yet none of them can claim to be perfect. Maybe you don't like all the sex and violence on TV but at least women can vote and aren't ignored when beaten by their husbands.

 

[Petre]

I say ... Ignorance is bliss , til you have someones boot heel on your neck.

As inalienable as these rights are .... there's a reason they needed to be written into law.

Because someone will always try to take them away ... and they are.

 

[TheBluesMan]

Sorry but I just don't believe that there is such a thing as universal right and wrong.

I find it hard to believe that you really think that way, Red. There certainly are universal constants of right and wrong among humans. That is one of the things that differentiates us from other, lesser animals.

-Dave

 

[pitz96]

If there are universal constants of morality and rights among humans worldwide, what are they? In some cultures, eating other humans is not considered unthinkable and is held to be powerful magic. Obviously the treatment of women varies tremendously in different cultures. Even infanticide is viewed differently in different parts of the world.

It would be great if everyone would agree on some basic inalienable human rights and not abuse them, of course. Our Bill of Rights is a good start, for us, anyway, not that it is always adhered to.

 

[Pointer]

you really can't pass up the chance to make a comment on my username.

This comment alone, condemns you as a liar and proagandist... I HAVE TOLD YOU in a PM that the term "wormtongue" comes from a character in the Trilogy of the Lord of the Rings. Now you try to get the reader's of this forum thread to believe I am picking on poor little Redworm...And you knowing all along, that it is a bald faced lie! Any credibility you had with me, just went to the cesspool.

AND... Yet more "wormtonguing"...

certainly not the majority

You weren't even there! You are recycling stale proaganda!

It wasn't mostly in the south, by the way.

More wishful thinking... You say what you wish it to be...The magic word is MOSTLY and I was there!

Racism is rampant

The majority of people don't have time to care one way or another...
AND... you clearly don't know the meaning of RAMPANT.

They percieved slavery as perfectly ok

Bull-oney... it was whites who wrote the Constitution and the Billl of Rights...
It was whites who freed many slaves in the North long before the Civil War was a consideration...
It was whites that debated openly about slavery... long before Lincoln was elected President...
It was whites who empowered the prominent free blacks to fight back in the first place...
It was whites who created the "Underground Railroad" to smuggle runaway slaves out of the South...
It was whites who published the editorials and books and essays which spoke out against slavery and other similar abuses, and these were written by both Free Blacks and whites.
It was whites who purchased these writings...and donated their money to the "cause".

All of this was long before the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation, which was also authored, and ratified, by whites...

Even in the South, there were prominant people who admitted that slavery was wrong, but it had become what they "percieved" as a too well entrenched hydra-headed economic evil...
And it was well entrenched, becuase it has taken a very long time for the economy of the South to outgrow it.

RAMPANT RACISM, indeed!

 

[Redworm]

I find it hard to believe that you really think that way, Red. There certainly are universal constants of right and wrong among humans. That is one of the things that differentiates us from other, lesser animals.

-Dave

I have my perceptions of right and wrong, you have yours. I don't believe there are constants because those change and evolve over time as does our species and our societies. Thousands of years ago there was no concept of pedophilia. Long before that there was no concept of consentual sex yet we were still far more highly evolved than those lesser animals. And again, look at the differences of just a few hundred years ago. Look at the differences of just a hundred years ago when it was absolutely insane for a woman to be considered of equal status to a man.

Right and wrong do exist among humans but only among humans because they are ideas that we give to actions and events. Without humans there is neither and as our species evolves so will its' perception of right and wrong.

 

[Redworm]

This comment alone, condemns you as a liar and proagandist... I HAVE TOLD YOU in a PM that the term "wormtongue" comes from a character in the Trilogy of the Lord of the Rings. Now you try to get the reader's of this forum thread to believe I am picking on poor little Redworm...And you knowing all along, that it is a bald faced lie! Any credibility you had with me, just went to the cesspool.

Yet you only use it when talking to me, afaik. Correct me if I'm wrong and I'll eat my words.

You weren't even there! You are recycling stale proaganda!

So I can't comment on social situations that have been heavily and widely documented? How was it state propoganda?

More wishful thinking... You say what you wish it to be...The magic word is MOSTLY and I was there!

It was rampant througout the country. It was heavier in the south but it was still wrong in the north.

The majority of people don't have time to care one way or another...
AND... you clearly don't know the meaning of RAMPANT.

Profusely widespread. Which it was and still is.

Bull-oney... it was whites who wrote the Constitution and the Billl of Rights...

And how many of them owned slaves? Yeah.

It was whites who freed many slaves in the North long before the Civil War was a consideration...

And good for them. Are we saying that southerners are less civil or was it just economically more feasible for the north?

It was whites that debated openly about slavery... long before Lincoln was elected President...

LOL Because no one else was allowed to debate.

It was whites who empowered the prominent free blacks to fight back in the first place...

It was whites who created the "Underground Railroad" to smuggle runaway slaves out of the South...
It was whites who published the editorials and books and essays which spoke out against slavery and other similar abuses, and these were written by both Free Blacks and whites.
It was whites who purchased these writings...and donated their money to the "cause".
[/quote] And good for them but you're missing the point. There was a time when it was perfectly acceptable, when a small minority had to fight to convince the majority that the status quo was wrong. yet today the majority fights against those who feel that gays should have the same rights as everyone else.

All of this was long before the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation, which was also authored, and ratified, by whites...

Even in the South, there were prominant people who admitted that slavery was wrong, but it had become what they "percieved" as a too well entrenched hydra-headed economic evil...
And it was well entrenched, becuase it has taken a very long time for the economy of the South to outgrow it.

RAMPANT RACISM, indeed!

Yes, rampant racism indeed. If racism was universally wrong then it wouldn't have been acceptable for thousands of years across the world.

 

[Bud Helms]

'Looks like we just jumped right off the high road and into the ditch/ All I see here is rolling around in the mud and name-calling. Too right to be wrong and unwilling to give the other side's comment due consideration.. That's not a debate or a discussion, it's a screamin' match.

Closed.

Nothing here folks ... move along.