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What do you do about a "shot out" bore?
- Thread starter JJ45
- Start date
Not necessarily. Boring and rifling is about as expensive as rebarreling. There are few people who still do it, and fewer who do a good job.
JES reboring has an excellent reputation and charges $250. That's about the same as a decent blank, with no additional costs for threading, chambering, contouring and finishing, which can run the cost up to twice that or more. Plus the rebored barrel will fit the stock perfectly and still have the original sights.
It may not be the right answer for everyone, but it's worth looking into.
ballisticxlr
New member
To shoot all the rifling out of an enfield rifled barrel takes a long time, at least thousands of rounds. To burn the throat out could take mere hours. When I burn the throat out of a barrel; which I do at least once a year, I will sometimes set the barrel back 1.5 inches and rethread, rechamber and recrown. Sometimes I'll just buy a new barrel because it's actually cheaper to do normally. A decent machinist will need 3-4 hours on the lathe at 80-100 bucks an hour to do all that and a new drop-in barel is 250-400 bucks depending on options. My machinist charges me 20 bucks an hour so I do a lot more buying of machine work than most people might.
It's probably best to leave setting back of barrels to barrel burners like fast 6's and stupid overbore stuff like 264winmag where 1000-2000 rounds is considered a full and healthy life span. When you see life span increasing to 3000-4000 rounds on the throat then the amount of rifling that's left is getting kinda small and very worn by the time the throat is burned out and it's probably just better to do a new barrel.
I don't use conventionally rifled barrels partly because the rifling in conventionally rifled (enfield rifling) wears away too, just slower than the throat. I use Caudle 3-land polygonally rifled barrels from Columbia River Arms largely because there is no rifling that sticks out which can be worn down. Instead the shape of the bore is off-round like a 3-lobed egg which causes the bullet to swage instead of engrave. So on one of my current barrels, thus far after >2300 rounds (1800 of .243AI 115's @3200fps + >500 6XC 115's @2980fps) the minimum bore diameter on my barrel has not changed at all. It was .2385 when it was brand new and it's .2385" now. A conventionally rifled barrel would see at least a couple thou of wear all the way down the length.
Barrels are consumables. They're like tires. When worn, replace or retread. Replace is always a little bit better but retread can do just fine in a pinch and wastes less raw materials.
It's probably best to leave setting back of barrels to barrel burners like fast 6's and stupid overbore stuff like 264winmag where 1000-2000 rounds is considered a full and healthy life span. When you see life span increasing to 3000-4000 rounds on the throat then the amount of rifling that's left is getting kinda small and very worn by the time the throat is burned out and it's probably just better to do a new barrel.
I don't use conventionally rifled barrels partly because the rifling in conventionally rifled (enfield rifling) wears away too, just slower than the throat. I use Caudle 3-land polygonally rifled barrels from Columbia River Arms largely because there is no rifling that sticks out which can be worn down. Instead the shape of the bore is off-round like a 3-lobed egg which causes the bullet to swage instead of engrave. So on one of my current barrels, thus far after >2300 rounds (1800 of .243AI 115's @3200fps + >500 6XC 115's @2980fps) the minimum bore diameter on my barrel has not changed at all. It was .2385 when it was brand new and it's .2385" now. A conventionally rifled barrel would see at least a couple thou of wear all the way down the length.
Barrels are consumables. They're like tires. When worn, replace or retread. Replace is always a little bit better but retread can do just fine in a pinch and wastes less raw materials.
JJ45,
The typical symptom for a shot-out barrel is not a uniform opening of groups, but rather you start to get fliers that are not your fault, and they get more and more frequent over a hundred rounds or so. depending on the chambering and how hot it is. The traditional treatment used to be to have the barrel shoulder moved forward a turn or maybe two in a bad case, and then rechambering. If the muzzle is too badly funneled and unevenly funneled, that doesn't work. But if it is only throat erosion, it usually does. G. David Tubb says his form of firelapping can save a throat from that for long enough to double barrel life without involving a gunsmith.
The typical symptom for a shot-out barrel is not a uniform opening of groups, but rather you start to get fliers that are not your fault, and they get more and more frequent over a hundred rounds or so. depending on the chambering and how hot it is. The traditional treatment used to be to have the barrel shoulder moved forward a turn or maybe two in a bad case, and then rechambering. If the muzzle is too badly funneled and unevenly funneled, that doesn't work. But if it is only throat erosion, it usually does. G. David Tubb says his form of firelapping can save a throat from that for long enough to double barrel life without involving a gunsmith.
stagpanther
New member
I just made another order with them yesterday for various things--among them their Tubb Dust which I noticed you recently mention. What's your verdict on the TD?But if it is only throat erosion, it usually does. G. David Tubb says his form of firelapping can save a throat from that for long enough to double barrel life without involving a gunsmith.
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Yes, you can buy a premium blank for $250, or buy a good blank for $120 (gmriflebarrels.com), then thread and chamber. Reboring, even with someone as good as JES, you will seldom wind up with a premium quality barrel since you started out with a barrel of unknown steel quality (hard spots, inclusions, cracks, stress areas, etc). And $250 to JES just covers reboring, shipping is extra. So you're back to $300-$350 pretty quick.JES reboring has an excellent reputation and charges $250. That's about the same as a decent blank, with no additional costs for threading, chambering, contouring and finishing, which can run the cost up to twice that or more. Plus the rebored barrel will fit the stock perfectly and still have the original sights.
stagpanther
New member
Suppose you have a barrel that you want rebored that wasn't especially good in it's first "incarnation"--is it also possible a rebore could make a better, straighter, stress relieved bore--or is it a general rule of thumb that a second bore cut on a barrel will always have more inherent defects than when it received it's first?Yes, you can buy a premium blank for $250, or buy a good blank for $120 (gmriflebarrels.com), then thread and chamber. Reboring, even with someone as good as JES, you will seldom wind up with a premium quality barrel since you started out with a barrel of unknown steel quality (hard spots, inclusions, cracks, stress areas, etc). And $250 to JES just covers reboring, shipping is extra. So you're back to $300-$350 pretty quick.
you can still find rem 722,s in 244 in very good condition for a good price, i bought one last year for 600.00 with a 6x leupold and ex bore. you could part yours for out at least 400-450, 150-200 for the stock- 250-300 for the reciever- 50-75 for the bottom metal- ? barrel to be rebored.
It's a grade of hBN powder, like his bullet coating. It is super fine and coats everything with the light orange dust. Very slippery stuff. When you shoot, it will blow out into the bore with the propellant, lubricating it. So it cuts down copper deposits for the same reason coating bullets does, but it takes less work. Like coating bullets, the resulting friction reduction will cost you a little bit of velocity until you adjust your loads. On a .308 W load that shot a 168-grain SMK at about 2650 fps, I had to add about 0.4 grains of powder to bring velocity back up, same as with moly-coated bullets. And, be aware your powder measure hopper and everything else it touches will get some of it on, though I'm not sure that isn't a good thing for uniform dispensing. My first check as to whether it made any difference to volumetric dispensing accuracy was inconclusive, though. But it certainly didn't hurt anything.
When I saw what it was, after mixing powder I got my rifle bore bare-metal clean and mixed a little of the powder with alcohol and put that on a patch and coated the bore with it upfront as a kind of pre-conditioning. I was figuring to prevent a situation where some carbon got in the way of it. I don't know if it made a significant difference or not, but that's what I've done with moly in the past, and it seemed to eliminate a settling-in period.
I'll detail this more when I get done with the experiment I started. I'm trying to squeeze double data out of loads with this setup, but good weather will have to come back and be about the same several days in a row to complete it.
When I saw what it was, after mixing powder I got my rifle bore bare-metal clean and mixed a little of the powder with alcohol and put that on a patch and coated the bore with it upfront as a kind of pre-conditioning. I was figuring to prevent a situation where some carbon got in the way of it. I don't know if it made a significant difference or not, but that's what I've done with moly in the past, and it seemed to eliminate a settling-in period.
I'll detail this more when I get done with the experiment I started. I'm trying to squeeze double data out of loads with this setup, but good weather will have to come back and be about the same several days in a row to complete it.
A lot of misinform and conjecture.
The reality is that if you shoot it a lot you will wear it out and the cost of a new barrel job easily exceeds buying a low cost rifle on sale by double the amount.
You have shipping costs, you have gun smith costs (labor is no longer cheap).
If its a hunting gun (though they tend to last forever to low shooing) buy a new one.
If you are gong to shoot a lot and you are not rich etch, get a Remington or a Savage that you can put your own barrels on. Not Competition class but you can come close with that.
As for a barrel demise, its in the throat. It wears, if you watch COAL you will fine its getting longer and longer to touch the lands.
You can extend life if not at top accuracy by extending the bullet though it gets too far out at some point. That is where I am at with my target 06. Bullet is about as far out as it goes.
You may or may not have lands cracked and broken (mine are cracking with a few chips off). Once those are gone so is the target accuracy though it might be ok for hunting (not that many hunt with a 8 lbs bull barrel). At 5-1000 rounds the barrel is at the end of its life (next one I will log rounds but I have been shooting that barrel for 40 weeks a year and 50 rounds a session for 5 years)
New barrel is on the way but like evry9ing else, its a long process (3 months)
Muzzle wear is fine but guns (barrels) don't wear out at the muzzle, its the throat.
Remington and Savage were the first of the spin in pre fit barrels and many mfgs out there for them.
Others have joined in but Rem and Savage have the best range of offerings.
The Boyds Featherweight TH stock makes a great one, its a hunting stock that suits me to a T for target and the fit is almost perfect (a bit of clean out at the rear tang). If ou put a large diamter barrel on you need to sand it out but its not a solid stock, it has a large air gap and I have sanded out to 1 inch bull and still have ledges on the fore stock.
As for a re-bore or redo. $20 to ship a barrel, $20 back and even those that will cut them down and re-thread, cost is about the same as a new barrel.
The reality is that if you shoot it a lot you will wear it out and the cost of a new barrel job easily exceeds buying a low cost rifle on sale by double the amount.
You have shipping costs, you have gun smith costs (labor is no longer cheap).
If its a hunting gun (though they tend to last forever to low shooing) buy a new one.
If you are gong to shoot a lot and you are not rich etch, get a Remington or a Savage that you can put your own barrels on. Not Competition class but you can come close with that.
As for a barrel demise, its in the throat. It wears, if you watch COAL you will fine its getting longer and longer to touch the lands.
You can extend life if not at top accuracy by extending the bullet though it gets too far out at some point. That is where I am at with my target 06. Bullet is about as far out as it goes.
You may or may not have lands cracked and broken (mine are cracking with a few chips off). Once those are gone so is the target accuracy though it might be ok for hunting (not that many hunt with a 8 lbs bull barrel). At 5-1000 rounds the barrel is at the end of its life (next one I will log rounds but I have been shooting that barrel for 40 weeks a year and 50 rounds a session for 5 years)
New barrel is on the way but like evry9ing else, its a long process (3 months)
Muzzle wear is fine but guns (barrels) don't wear out at the muzzle, its the throat.
Remington and Savage were the first of the spin in pre fit barrels and many mfgs out there for them.
Others have joined in but Rem and Savage have the best range of offerings.
The Boyds Featherweight TH stock makes a great one, its a hunting stock that suits me to a T for target and the fit is almost perfect (a bit of clean out at the rear tang). If ou put a large diamter barrel on you need to sand it out but its not a solid stock, it has a large air gap and I have sanded out to 1 inch bull and still have ledges on the fore stock.
As for a re-bore or redo. $20 to ship a barrel, $20 back and even those that will cut them down and re-thread, cost is about the same as a new barrel.
stagpanther
New member
Thanks for that. I've read that David also advises using his throat and finishing bullets even on brand new barrels as a means of extending their life, I get a bit nervous about doing that (I know you don't do the full 50 load treatments).It's a grade of hBN powder, like his bullet coating. It is super fine and coats everything with the light orange dust. Very slippery stuff. When you shoot, it will blow out into the bore with the propellant, lubricating it. So it cuts down copper deposits for the same reason coating bullets does, but it takes less work. Like coating bullets, the resulting friction reduction will cost you a little bit of velocity until you adjust your loads. On a .308 W load that shot a 168-grain SMK at about 2650 fps, I had to add about 0.4 grains of powder to bring velocity back up, same as with moly-coated bullets. And, be aware your powder measure hopper and everything else it touches will get some of it on, though I'm not sure that isn't a good thing for uniform dispensing. My first check as to whether it made any difference to volumetric dispensing accuracy was inconclusive, though. But it certainly didn't hurt anything.
When I saw what it was, after mixing powder I got my rifle bore bare-metal clean and mixed a little of the powder with alcohol and put that on a patch and coated the bore with it upfront as a kind of pre-conditioning. I was figuring to prevent a situation where some carbon got in the way of it. I don't know if it made a significant difference or not, but that's what I've done with moly in the past, and it seemed to eliminate a settling-in period.
I'll detail this more when I get done with the experiment I started. I'm trying to squeeze double data out of loads with this setup, but good weather will have to come back and be about the same several days in a row to complete it.