What can you hunt with a 9mm?

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"In it he mentions civil war soldiers making their way home had to feed themselves with a cap and ball .36. He goes on to say the 9mm and .38 Special are adequate for close broadside shots on deer. Of course ammo was lame then compared to what we have today. He touts SuperVel.

So what do you think? Survival situation only? Would anyone pass up a deer shot if we were lost and hadn't eaten in a week?

So what do you think is the upper limit and what have you taken with a 9?"



In all honesty how many folks are hobbling home from the Civil War and trying to feed themselves today?

In all honesty, how may folks are going into a "survival situation" with a 9MM in today's time frame?

With cell phones, satellite phones, GPS, how many folks are going to be lost for a week?

The 9mm might be good for shooting yourself for being stupid.
 
FDF in all honesty how many people can not afford GPS and live in regions that still have spotty cell coverage and the only handgun they own is a 9mm? there are a heck of a lot. here in Idaho unless you are in a relatively populated area and have verizon as a carrier then you do not have cell coverage, period. I've gotten turned around horribly while out in these woods but have always been with other people who could help me navigate. I regularly carry a 45 for bear protection but I always loan out my 9mm to hunting partners who don't have a sidearm. I laugh at the fact that you would even mention satellite phones. who in the world that makes less than $50,000 a year owns a satellite phone? nobody, the are too cost prohibitive.

if we were to get separated in a blizzard out in these woods then I could easily see a person getting lost for several days and that 9mm would be a major lifeline.
 
I have killed many deer and a few antelope, elk and black bears with handguns. I find that with correct bullets, the bigger magnums work about as well as some hunting rifles on what we'd think of as the "lower end" of the power scale. The 454 Casull works so well it's about like rifles in the "upper mid range".

The 45 auto is nearly identical to a good broad head when hunting with a bow. I have never killed anything bigger than a coyote with a 9mm or a 38 special, but from talking to a few friends of mine who did 30+ years each with state and federal Law Enforcement, their opinion is that the best of the 9mm ammo is about as good as hardball 45.

A few years ago I was carrying a 45 auto on a deer hunt in another state. I had loaded some Hornady XTP bullets and I was a bit curious as to how they would perform. I made a decision that if I got a chance to polish off a deer with one I would.
As it turned out I got a shot at an unwoulded buck 7 yards. I shot for the point of the shoulder but missed the joint by about 1”. The deer jumped and ran but only got about 35 or 40 yards away before piling up. I walked up on him from the back and I could see the buck was still struggling a bit so I fired another one into the mid body angling the bullet toward the front of the chest. That bullet didn’t seem to do much, but the dear lay still a few seconds later.
I waited about 2 minutes more and then checked its eyes. Open and non-responsive, so I started to gut it out. I was shocked when I removed two 230 grain FMJs. I had switched magazines and forgotten.

My opinion is that a good 9mm bullet would kill deer pretty well with careful shots, but I would not go out of my way to do it. Any gun is better than no gun, but some guns would be far more desirable for hunting deer than others.
 
Where I live you would be shooting coyotes & smaller. I would not worry about a survival situation. In that case anything goes. I do know that with 125 gr. XTPs they make a heck of a jackrabbit load. A little messy for cottontails. Not much left to eat. I have thought about it for coyote calling but when you get one close enough for the pistol they react real fast. The shotgun gets the fur home in those situations.
 
Cave man used spears and atlatl thrown darts. Sure it killed, but was it the best for the job? When primitive man was introduced to guns, the spears, bows, arrows, were junked for the new technology.

Gun writers are just opinioned people pontificating at a National Level. Celebrity does not make a man wiser. So what if Civil War soldiers used cap and ball pistols on each other and animals? That is not a great justification for the use of low powered weapons on deer. Gun writers have severe conflicts of interest, so their writings are sprinkled with product promotions. Maybe Nonte was looking for free ammunition, future articles, paid hunting trips from Lee Jurras.

It is not a matter of can the 9mm kill a deer, but is it the most humane round? Are there rounds that are less likely to injure and wound a living creature, which will run off and die in great pain?

The point for me is, you are inflicting pain on another creature: you are killing it. It is not a target to punch holes for the challenge of a good group.
 
I'd rather hunt deer with an M1 carbine if I was dead set on using a barely adequate cartridge. The consensus is and I agree that the 30 carbine round is barely adequate at close range for deer and the the 9mm is even less powerful. Why make it so hard on yourself? Borrow your buddies 30-30 and have some piece of mind.
 
After the guys thump their chests enough about killing big creatures with the 9mm, perhaps we can move on to shooting deer with 32 S&W or maybe .25 auto. Where does this all end? I have to agree with the argument put forth about using the deer for ballistic media experimentation.
You are shooting a living creature and for god's sake do it humanely with enough cartridge to do it right. I shutter to think of all the wounded deer that are wandering around during the season suffering from bullet holes and dying a slow death from them. I have found carcasses from wounded animals and I'm sure a lot of other hunters have too.
We have enough poor shooters out there wounding animals, we don't need poor calibers to add to the problem......just trying to prove they can kill something with an inadequate weapon.
 
So what do you think? Survival situation only? Would anyone pass up a deer shot if we were lost and hadn't eaten in a week?
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If trying to survive in an area or scenario where one cannot find their way out in a week, whether the shooting of a deer outta season with a 9mm is legal or not would be of little concern. 'ell, I'd wouldn't pass up the chance to throw rocks at it or beat it to death with a stick if that's all I had. Odds are that's illegal too. Would a 9mm be my first choice to hunt deer size game? No, even where legal. But in survival situations one does not have a choice other than to try and stay alive. Anyone here saying they would not take the shot is only kidding themselves.
 
slamfire said:
Gun writers are just opinioned people pontificating at a National Level. Celebrity does not make a man wiser. So what if Civil War soldiers used cap and ball pistols on each other and animals? That is not a great justification for the use of low powered weapons on deer. Gun writers have severe conflicts of interest, so their writings are sprinkled with product promotions. Maybe Nonte was looking for free ammunition, future articles, paid hunting trips from Lee Jurras.
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I'll ask Lee about that. I doubt I will be able to repost his response.
 
Interesting question. I own a 9 mm Luger Destroyer carbine. This thing is a bolt action carbine with a 20" barrel. I bought it just because it's a fun little thing to shoot and shoot it more or less regularly, but even though it would be legal to use it for hunting over here, I have discarded this idea just for the ethics thing. I would feel so bad if I didn't get a good shot, and then lost an animal I have just injured.

This said, I own a chrono that I mainly use to chrono my pistol ammo. I worked up loads starting from the 4'7 grains of Optima A I use for my pistol loads. Optima A is a medium burning rate, locally manufactured and not available in the US powder, pretty similar to CSB-1 shotgun powder if you guys are familiar with it. With up to 6 grains I got speeds in excess of 1300 ft/sec using 125 grains bullets. I didn't do the maths but that would make for a respectable amount of energy. Using slower powders like Vectan SP2 I know I would get higher velocities (well over 1400 ft7/sec), and perhaps those velocities and a Hornady XTP bullet would make a decent hunting round, but I still think I'd feel more comfortable with a proper rifle round.
 
What can you hunt with a 9mm?

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Nothing
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Read my post about the nutria hunting the cajuns in LA do with a semi-auto 9mm rifle. Perfect round for those pests.
 
As far as I'm concerned, the nutria shooting is much like shooting an armadillo that's digging up your yard, the feral dog or cat in your garbage, etc....it's shooting a pest that no one is really concerned about. When you say "What can you HUNT"...it brings to mind the connotation of actually taking to the field in pursuit of an animal. And I can think of absolutely nothing I would pursue with a 9mm. I will even follow a wounded possum shot near my chicken coop to finish it off, rather than let it suffer. Why on earth would I pursue a game animal with a 9mm?
 
Yes, the nutria are pests but they are also decent eating - thus they are a game animal. The relatively slow moving bullet from a 9mm is perfect for these animals. It kills them far more quickly than a .22 and with relatively little meat damage. The reason they use a 9mm instead of some other slow-moving rifle caliber is that this is the only caliber of that class easily available in a semi-auto rifle.

Here is a video of them doing it with a shotgun. Many hunters like using a rifle (or even a pistol) as more of a challenge. With a rifle, a semi-auto makes sense in this situation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyB7FsrfR40
 
I find it quite comical that killing racoons, skunks, nutrias, armadillos, opossums, badgers, squirrels, pigeons, stray cats, and dogs is NOT hunting because the animals are pests, yet...

...grouse, waterfowl, turkeys, coyotes, javalinas, pheasants, quail, bobwhite, doves, feral pigs, bobcats, lynx, and fox are hunting because you can buy tags and permits for them...

who on earth made that little set of rules? hunting is hunting, clear and simple, it doesn't matter if you do so just to kill them or to eat them or even how far you have to travel to do it... killing a wild animal is hunting!
 
There are a number of illogical prejudices about this stuff.

As far as I'm concerned, the nutria shooting is much like shooting an armadillo that's digging up your yard, the feral dog or cat in your garbage, etc....it's shooting a pest that no one is really concerned about. When you say "What can you HUNT"...it brings to mind the connotation of actually taking to the field in pursuit of an animal. And I can think of absolutely nothing I would pursue with a 9mm. I will even follow a wounded possum shot near my chicken coop to finish it off, rather than let it suffer. Why on earth would I pursue a game animal with a 9mm?
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Over the many decades folks have gone hunting with a variety of calibers and handguns. Folks going on longer hunts with their long guns have often carried 22 caliber handguns for taking small game for meals like squirrel, raccoon, etc.

The 22, 22Magnum, 17 HMR, 32 H&R Magnum, 32-20, 38 Spl. the .357 Magnum and more have all been used to take game for the pot and from handguns. So the 9mm in a handgun or carbine can also play that role.

It doesn't occur to some that it can because it's a combat round and not a revolver round. It doesn't occur to others because they think it's underpowered for deer and their head gets stuck on that and they don't think much beyond that or game smaller than a small deer.

Some think of hunting as something done with a rifle only. Their experience is limited. In much of the world, monkey, dog, raccoon, possum, etc. are food for the table and the 9mm has taken it's share. Bush meat is what it's called in Kenya. A friend that lived there used to shoot the heads off meercats with a Luger in 9mm. Make a stew.

This is mostly all limited experience or prejudice. The 9mm will take any game the 38 Spl. will take and any the 17HMRwill take. It can do it. Don't mean it'd be my first choice. But it has done it plenty and does it daily.

tipoc
 
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