What can we learn from Florida?

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I may be a little different than some folks, but I have found myself to be less aggressive since I started carrying a firearm on a regular basis. For instance the other day as I was driving someone started tailgating me and when I slowed to turn they gave me the “you're number one” sign. In the past I might have returned the gesture, but this time as soon as the incident occurred the first thing I thought was – you have a gun. I did not think this because I felt empowered to be aggressive, but just the opposite that I need to do my best to avoid situations that might result in me being forced to use the gun.
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This is also my way of thinking. While we have a right to defend ourselves, we also have a responsibility to act as muture adults. When carrying a weapon with such lethality, use your head!
Once the bullet leaves the barrel, you can't get it back. A gun is for life threatening situations only!
 
Don't bothering getting involved, mind your own business, and if you see something...why bother calling 911, it can be used against you in the future.

Be prepared to protect yourself & your family. Let everyone else to the same, and hard luck to them if they fail.

That is what I have learned.
 
Mindset is important

Apologize if this study is being discussed elsewhere on the forum.
(this is actually a report about it if anyone has/knows if the actual study is published online please share)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120321152627.htm

but it addresses an interesting point the OP bought up on the issue of how carrying makes one "feel"

I read elsewhere that the study was done on subjects who were not "regular" gun users -Curious what that means and curious what those of you who do carry think
 
My wife told me about an odd incident at our home one morning.
She just left the house to jog around the neighborhood. As she was rounding the street she saw a truck slow down next to our house. She kept jogging until she felt that something was not right so she turned around. she found a "red work truck" parked in our driveway. Then she saw a man (no discription) walking out of our back gate. she confronted the man and asked him, "Can I help you?" The guys story was that he was there to meet with "Thomas". It just so happens to be one of our neighbor's name. Well the guy left and my wife thought nothing more of it until she ran into "Thomas". Thomas did not know who the guy was but said he will keep an eye out for the 'red work truck".
When my wife told me the story that evening, I asked if she took down the license plate or had her phone with her ready to call. She did not think it was necessary because it was daytime. Rather than get upset with her, I simply stated that I'm glad she is safe. Then I asked her if it happens again, to not confront but observe and report.
 
Have some solid hand to hand skills. It is always good to have a plan for a fist fight that does not involve firearms.
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Not always the case for everyone, like older people who can't or fatter people, or people like myself who are small and most people could beat up easily.

Just because you have a CHL does NOT make you a LEO.
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^ This, a CCW is to defend yourself, not looking for trouble or starting trouble. Call the police and get out of there.
 
You're all on your own. If you need help because you are being assaulted, if someone is breaking into your home, etc, etc. Don't expect me to help, to much liability involved. Who knows my intervention might create the next causes celebres, if I it does, it will only be from defending my own life, my family, or my property.

Call me any names you like, I care not the least. I've seen with my own eyes how the 'justice' system and media work. Or do not work, whichever your view may be.
 
Marquezj16 said:
My wife told me about an odd incident at our home one morning.
She just left the house to jog around the neighborhood. As she was rounding the street she saw a truck slow down next to our house. She kept jogging until she felt that something was not right so she turned around. she found a "red work truck" parked in our driveway. Then she saw a man (no discription) walking out of our back gate. she confronted the man and asked him, "Can I help you?" The guys story was that he was there to meet with "Thomas". It just so happens to be one of our neighbor's name. Well the guy left and my wife thought nothing more of it until she ran into "Thomas". Thomas did not know who the guy was but said he will keep an eye out for the 'red work truck".
When my wife told me the story that evening, I asked if she took down the license plate or had her phone with her ready to call. She did not think it was necessary because it was daytime. Rather than get upset with her, I simply stated that I'm glad she is safe. Then I asked her if it happens again, to not confront but observe and report.
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A similar incident happened to me two years ago when I was working on a property that I rent. My guard was down because I had been working on the plumbing in the basement crawl space for a few hours and I was tired. The tenants were not home when a loud knocking came to the front door. Then the loud knocking came again. I went to the door in an agitated state of mind covered in crawl space dirt and looking like the Loch Ness monster holding some plumbing tools.

I didn't know what to expect but I didn't get a good feeling from the knocking. I was carrying a small frame .38 in a belt holster but it didn't occur to me to get it ready because I was too tired, dirty and agitated. When I opened the door, there stood a big dude on the top step of the porch looking nervous. We just looked at each other for about two seconds then he said that he was looking for somebody by a name that I didn't know. Next I noticed his partner on the driver side of a car that was backed into the driveway. My internal alarm went off because a similar thing happened to me at my house some years earlier.
The guy quickly said that he thought he had the wrong house and immediately got into the passenger side of the car and the car drove away. Later when the tenants returned home, they stated that they didn't know anyone by the description I gave and they didn't know the car.

Several things come to mind when I review this incident.
  1. I think it was my bizarre appearance that gave this guy pause from attacking me.
  2. My gun did not come into play because like an idiot, I didn't have it ready.
  3. I normally consider myself alert and aware but when I'm tired, my guard goes down somewhat whether I admit it or not.
  4. Many home invasions begin with a knock at the door.
  5. I could have been shot as soon as I opened the door.
  6. Before opening the door, it pays to look out a window to see what is in the driveway and how many people are there.
  7. It doesn't hurt to look and sound like a mean S.O.B. when strangers come knocking at your door. If they turn out to be good people, you can always offer an apology later. This might be what saved my life.
 
Discretion is the better part of valor. Lethal force must be the last resort in the face of unavoidable threat, because even if it is decided to be justified by law, there are dire consequences for everyone involved.

Shoot if you must, avoid if you can...and do this on the basis of a split-second decision, in the dark, under stress.
 
It's interesting to see that some folks don't seem to see any options between "don't get involved" and "come out with guns blazing."

Folks might want to give some serious thought to ways in which you could help without necessarily putting yourself at much risk.
 
CNIMROD:

It looks like that "study" is slated for publication in the near future ... usually journal articles are not allowed to be published by the author in other venues, so it isn't likely to be available. All that aside, it has also been shown that when people are exposed to images of a certain shape, that they find those images in other contexts ... the fact that they are having a test subject hold a toy gun simply HAS to put that image in their mind ... and all the moreso if the subject doesn't usually interact with firearms. It shouldn't surprise anyone that with that strong of a suggestion, that there would be a bias in how they perceive images. The fact, however, that the subject was also wearing shoes probably never once correlated to their identifying the objects in the pictures as shoes ... I hate to say it, but a lot of research is done with an agenda, so it is critical that we look carefully at the results and understand the limitations of the study.

I applaud your desire to see the original study ... at some point it will publish. You might contact the author and ask directly when it is due out.

Saands
 
Today, 03:05 PM #48
nate45
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Join Date: July 15, 2007
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You're all on your own. If you need help because you are being assaulted, if someone is breaking into your home, etc, etc. Don't expect me to help, to much liability involved. Who knows my intervention might create the next causes celebres, if I it does, it will only be from defending my own life, my family, or my property.

Call me any names you like, I care not the least. I've seen with my own eyes how the 'justice' system and media work. Or do not work, whichever your view may be.
__________________
(>_<)
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Unfortunately, we truly have little justice left in America in many ways because people on juries don't follow logical conclusions as they did in the past. How many times have you heard comments like, as soon as I saw him, I knew he was guilty that are completely subjective and illogical evidence of guilt. But that is America today. A jury of my peers would be composed of people that can act like Spock looking logically and objectively at the evidence. Anything other than that and a jury of my peers today is nothing but a frightful consideration.

You truly have to look after yourself and be very careful what you take on. Placing yourself in a situation where you have to depend on the American justice system ain't any place I ever want to be.

I do remember a news story a while back of an elderly man who was sitting in a shop when it got robbed. He had a military background of some sort if I recall the story correctly. Even though he was armed, he did not interfere with the robbers UNTIL they took him back into the bathroom. He believed at that point his life was in danger and he put a bullet in the two robbers heads killing them instantly.

No charges were filed. He showed restraint and only acted when he was taken into the back room, often an ominous sign. Tactically, he caught them by surprise because he didn't give away the fact he was carrying. In addition, there were no other people in the line of his bullets except the bad guys. If I can find that news report again, it is a true master piece of concealed carry intervention in my opinion.
 
Oh ... I also wanted to mention that of the 10-15 people that I know who carry, I don't know a single person that acts brave or aggressive when they CCW ... on the contrary. In fact it has been my experience that when a firearm gets holstered, the typical response is enhanced civility and care to be law abiding in almost every dimension. I say "almost every dimension," because somehow none of us seem to drive any slower when we carry :p

Saands
 
what can we learn?

So what is the proper tactical protocol for a private citizen to follow should they observe a crime in progress?

In August of this year, I will have been a police firearms instructor for 30 years. We train police officers, who are actually sworn and have the legal right to be armed off duty and make arrests, to do the following when observing some crime or potential crime off duty: OBSERVE AND REPORT. Don't follow anybody. Don't confront anybody UNLESS you are acting directly to protect somebody's personal safety. Get on your cell phone and call the ON DUTY UNIFORMED cops to come and investigate whatever situation you are observing. BE A GOOD WITNESS.

That's what ANYONE should do in a similar situation. Believe me, the on-duty police don't WANT the assistance of some clown who gets in the way and complicates the situation. OBSERVE and REPORT and let the cops do their job.

As a private citizen it is NOT your job to "take care of it myself" or "handle it my own way". The same thing is true for an off duty cop in most situations, or an on-duty cop in plainclothes. You don't carry a gun to be James Bond or Dirty Harry. You carry a gun to protect you and yours while you get on the cell phone and call for help from the police, or the fire department, or the ambulance service, or whatever . .
 
How many times have you heard comments like, as soon as I saw him, I knew he was guilty that are completely subjective and illogical evidence of guilt.
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On TV/movies, often. On jury duty, or from people who actually served on a jury, never.

I'll give you that we have a lot of problems with our judicial system, but jury's are still comprised of every day people - people who didn't duck their civic duty - and most people are trying to do the right thing.

I think most of the lessons learned from the situation in FL have more to do with citizenship than duties of a CCWer. Unless you're LEO - and regardless of whether you're carrying a gun - it's not your place to tail kids around, no matter how suspicious they look.
That doesn't mean we should completely ignore the world around us and take the tack that "if it's not directly effecting me, I won't do anything". I just think there's a lot of room between sitting by and watching someone get mugged, and chasing down every kid that we think looks like their up to no good.
But again, the only thing that carrying a gun effects in all that is that it does have the potential to escalate things. And if we do escalate - intentionally or not - a non violent situation into a violent/lethal one there will probably be consequences no matter what our intentions were. I think I heard that good intentions pave a road somewhere....
 
To play Devil's Advocate, what exactly keeps you safe if you're on a neighborhood watch? If neighborhood watch sees potential BG and calls it in, unless they immediately run/drive away they are potentially liable if attacked.
 
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