What bullets do you use for personal defense?
- Thread starter mnoirot64
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David Bachelder
New member
Most of the time a 9mm 125 grain round nose.
Sometimes a .40 Hollowpoint.
Sometimes a .45 Roundnose.
All are self cast and handloads.
Depends on the color of my socks ......
Sometimes a .40 Hollowpoint.
Sometimes a .45 Roundnose.
All are self cast and handloads.
Depends on the color of my socks ......
You won't ever hear me say that a cheap Ranier HP is a great defensive bullet. It is however what I use because I had a good supply of them, a bunch of ammo loaded with them, and a Kimber .45 ACP that likes them and shoots them to point of aim. Its big, seems pretty soft and expands pretty well from my shooting into wet catalogs etc, plus did I mention its pretty much what I have except for some 200 grain lead SWC's that are light loaded, which would still be much better than a rock.
My .38 is my "house gun". The load is "designed" as an 850 fps, full caliber flat point that will cause lots of tissue disruption and shock, and little over penetration. The same applies to the 45 ACP, large flat fronted bullet traveling at a moderate speed imparts lots of tissue damage without danger to the neighbors. I have shot quite a few of these reloads and am used to, and comfortable with them and I can usually hit what I point at. My research in gel testing (not mine, but published results) tells me these thoughts are on the right track. Nope, I haven't shot anybody with them, and I haven't shot any cadavers to test the rounds, I just use my own common sense putting the rounds together...
BTW, I can "offer" 250 gr. .44 caliber wadcutter, "anti-personnel" bullet, running at slightly over 1,000 fps, or 168 grain soft points in my M1, or 250 gr. LSWC at about 1250 fps outta my Ruger SBH, but they are hardly self defense rounds to be used in or around a normal residence.
BTW, if you think I'm too concerned with neighbor's safety, I'll relate something that happened to me. I was working on a .44 Magnum lever action with mid loads of Blue Dot and a 250 gr. lead bullet. I had a major OOPS!, a negligent discharge (the rifle fired a round), totally my fault, not thinking. The bullet went through a 3/4" plywood wall, through a thickness of aluminum siding, another 1/2" of plywood, one thickness of dry wall, one interior door, 2, 1/8" wall panels, 2, 1/2'" wood pieces of a decorative screen, another 2 thicknesses of dry wall, one 1/8" wall panel and a 2x2 pine stiffener. Nearly the entire length of a double wide mobile home, through several walls. My neighbors are approximately 20-30 yards away and had the bullet been fired at an intruder in my home and penetrated through and through (or God forbid a miss), it would prolly continue and enter the neighbor's home. There's no way I'd shoot my .223/5.56 or M1 at an intruder...
I shoot these rounds quite a bit and they are not my "SD" only loads. I have good to excellent accuracy from my .38, and better than I can shoot accuracy from my 1911...
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I think my choice in that situation would be frangible 9mm, my Judge with #4 shot .410, or my .410 Coach Gun with #4 buck shot or even #7 target. I would be leery of what that .38 Special would penetrate, depending on the location and number of walls and other barriers behind the shot.
A pause for the COZ
New member
Well, Here we go again. I love these threads.
I have multiple fire arms stashed in a few areas around the house. ( no young children around any more)
That way where ever I am in the house I am not more than 10 or 15 feet from arming my self.
12 ga I use 00 Buck.
357 magnum. I use 158gr Winchester Hollow points.
327 magnum - 100 gr XTP's
9mm- XTP's
.380 - XTP's Seeing a trend I like XTP's
45acp I broke with my trend. I use a lyman 452374 hollow point.
This is a monster bullet. These things will absolutely put a juiced up meth head down quick.
As for the reloads for self defense argument. " Hey if I knew today was the day he was coming to invade my home. I would have switched to factory ammo." It would be his fault he got shot with what ever I had in the gun. Not mine.
I have multiple fire arms stashed in a few areas around the house. ( no young children around any more)
That way where ever I am in the house I am not more than 10 or 15 feet from arming my self.
12 ga I use 00 Buck.
357 magnum. I use 158gr Winchester Hollow points.
327 magnum - 100 gr XTP's
9mm- XTP's
.380 - XTP's Seeing a trend I like XTP's
45acp I broke with my trend. I use a lyman 452374 hollow point.
This is a monster bullet. These things will absolutely put a juiced up meth head down quick.
As for the reloads for self defense argument. " Hey if I knew today was the day he was coming to invade my home. I would have switched to factory ammo." It would be his fault he got shot with what ever I had in the gun. Not mine.
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We seem to want to debate the definition of a defensive round. I think we know it is an expanding or mushrooming bullet, something to give the maximum wound and controlled penetration.
So it seems that some don't use defensive rounds at all.
But when I use defensive rounds, I drink Dos Equiis...no,,, got confused there...sorry.
So it seems that some don't use defensive rounds at all.
But when I use defensive rounds, I drink Dos Equiis...no,,, got confused there...sorry.
I know this is an old thread, but I post in the interest of not spreading misinformation to those reading this thread (which is comes up readily in a Google search on the topic). If you are loading for "lots of tissue disruption and shock, and little over penetration" the above loads are the exact opposite of this. The poster is greatly mistaken in his comments, and one can only wonder what ballistic gelatin testing he read that tells him that his "thoughts are on the right track". As the reader can easily find these tests online by googling, allow me to summarize:
The .38 Special 148 grain factory swaged wadcutter at standard factory target velocity has been shown in numerous tests to penetrate 18+ inches of ballistic gelatin, exiting most testing media blocks. Other tests have shown up to 24" of penetration. Loading with a cast DEWC will produce even MORE penetration due to the non-deforming nature of that bullet.
The 200 grain .45 Auto cast SWC at target velocities penetrates as much or more. With either the .38 wadcutter or .45 SWC load, boosting them over a "stiff load" as the poster also stated, would produce penetration of close to 30". In one well-publicized tragedy, a shooter at an IPSC event using a .45 200 SWC loaded to major factor missed his target at a bad angle, the bullet travelling 50 yards and missing the backstop before penetrating through an exterior and interior wall before killing a teenager attending a safety class. There are most certainly NOT limited penetration loads.
As far as "lots of tissue shock", this theory has also been shown by testing to be a false presumption for these types of loads. They do not expand to create a larger wound channel; they remain at bullet diameter. The edges of the lead projectiles are rounded by the firing process - there is no sharp-edged cookie-cutter effect. Nor do these round tumble to create a larger wound channel; they travel straight-line head-on through tissue. While they do make an initial blunt impact, they are more similar in total tissue disruption to round nose bullets, and far behind modern hollowpoint bullets.
While choosing use these WC and SWC types of loads for self-defense based on accuracy, mild recoil, and/or familiarity are valid reasons, they are most definitely NOT limited penetration rounds, nor do they possess the wounding effect of modern hollowpoint bullets. They are amongst the worst choices for limited penetration in populated areas, apartments, etc. A lightweight HP bullet is far better for the purpose of limited penetration and tissue disruption. If strictly limited penetration is not an issue, then medium or heavy weight jacketed hollow point bullets are still vastly superior in wounding ability to SWC or WC loads.
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random guy
New member
In handguns I prefer Gold Dots. They are magic. I'm sure they can be made to fail but it would take some doing. There are gel tests of them at +P+ squared velocities which peel the bullet back right down to its base but the bullet still weighed within .5 grain of original weight. Magic.
They do tend to underpenetrate when driven this fast so there is really no need to abuse the gun or brass with extreme pressures.
There are undoubtedly other really good bullets as well but GDs seem so consistently good that I looked no further. They are not always easy to get so I shoot more XTPs at the range, a fine bullet in its own right.
The most important factor in stopping an attack has to be shot placement and most of the time, a well placed target wadcutter would do the trick. Still, there are occasional cases where a "low performance" bullet pokes a self-sealing hole or otherwise is less than decisive, to the detriment of the person defending themselves. So we want all the edge we can get.
I got my first Ranier 115gr HPs a while back and was intrigued by their similarity to GDs. I don't really expect GD performance (Others have gotten wildly varying expansion results) but I'm going to shoot them into some wet newsprint tomorrow at the best velocity I can churn up.
Edit: Ranier test is complete and they did better than I expected. They did seem to shed some weight compared to the one Gold Dot that I shot for comparison. The Raniers did all expand and penetrate consistently, a bit more than the GD but less than the Fed RTP 115 FMJ which drilled thru the entire stack.
They do tend to underpenetrate when driven this fast so there is really no need to abuse the gun or brass with extreme pressures.
There are undoubtedly other really good bullets as well but GDs seem so consistently good that I looked no further. They are not always easy to get so I shoot more XTPs at the range, a fine bullet in its own right.
The most important factor in stopping an attack has to be shot placement and most of the time, a well placed target wadcutter would do the trick. Still, there are occasional cases where a "low performance" bullet pokes a self-sealing hole or otherwise is less than decisive, to the detriment of the person defending themselves. So we want all the edge we can get.
I got my first Ranier 115gr HPs a while back and was intrigued by their similarity to GDs. I don't really expect GD performance (Others have gotten wildly varying expansion results) but I'm going to shoot them into some wet newsprint tomorrow at the best velocity I can churn up.
Edit: Ranier test is complete and they did better than I expected. They did seem to shed some weight compared to the one Gold Dot that I shot for comparison. The Raniers did all expand and penetrate consistently, a bit more than the GD but less than the Fed RTP 115 FMJ which drilled thru the entire stack.
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ShootistPRS
New member
I use a Sierra 140 grain JHP in my 357, a Sierra 185 grain JHP in my 45.
I don't use my 9mm in a self defense mode.
I don't use my 9mm in a self defense mode.
JeepHammer
Moderator
"What Bullets Do You Use For Peraonal Defense"...
I use the hair on the back of my neck, when it stands up, I back out or look for an escape route.
I've been in gunfights (military) and I have ZERO wish to get into another one now that I'm old, crippled and take MUCH longer to heal.
That being said, Since I normally hit what I aim at,
The bullets in the firearm, no matter what they are... only in the event I get cornered.
Everyone wants to *THINK* they are John Wayne, Rambo & the Terminator combined...
In all actuality most freeze up or wet themselves.
And for the UNINITIATED,
Fully expect to be charged with 'Homocide' or worse,
Fully expect to spend $100,000 or more to defend yourself in court,
And even if you do get acquitted in criminal court,
Fully expect to be sued by the shooting victim or their family,
And, fully expect your choice of firearm/bullet to be front & center in that litigation.
I don't need to hear YOUR state/county laws,
I don't need to hear your version of how you *Think* it's going to go.
Police officers/LE get sued REGULARLY after being cleared because of the weapon/bullet they used...
Just facts of the world we live in.
I use the hair on the back of my neck, when it stands up, I back out or look for an escape route.
I've been in gunfights (military) and I have ZERO wish to get into another one now that I'm old, crippled and take MUCH longer to heal.
That being said, Since I normally hit what I aim at,
The bullets in the firearm, no matter what they are... only in the event I get cornered.
Everyone wants to *THINK* they are John Wayne, Rambo & the Terminator combined...
In all actuality most freeze up or wet themselves.
And for the UNINITIATED,
Fully expect to be charged with 'Homocide' or worse,
Fully expect to spend $100,000 or more to defend yourself in court,
And even if you do get acquitted in criminal court,
Fully expect to be sued by the shooting victim or their family,
And, fully expect your choice of firearm/bullet to be front & center in that litigation.
I don't need to hear YOUR state/county laws,
I don't need to hear your version of how you *Think* it's going to go.
Police officers/LE get sued REGULARLY after being cleared because of the weapon/bullet they used...
Just facts of the world we live in.
It really depends on what I am defending myself against and what firearm I have on me.
Luckily, I have never had to fire a shot at a human but if my life were in jeopardy I wouldn't worry about what ammunition was in my firearm.
I'll take the argument one step further for the "never reloads" crowd, let's say you developed the perfect hog, deer or target round for that matter and someone was threatening your life and that firearm/ammunition was what you happened to have in your hand, do you grab it by the muzzle to use it as a club?
Luckily, I have never had to fire a shot at a human but if my life were in jeopardy I wouldn't worry about what ammunition was in my firearm.
I'll take the argument one step further for the "never reloads" crowd, let's say you developed the perfect hog, deer or target round for that matter and someone was threatening your life and that firearm/ammunition was what you happened to have in your hand, do you grab it by the muzzle to use it as a club?
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