What are the best non-JHP .38/.357 bullets for self defense?

T

TruthTellers

New member
By JHP, I mean jacketed hollow points and all hollow points.

I'm looking for a good bullet to reload for defense against beast and man in .38 snub revolvers and .357 revolvers. My preference is it not rely on expansion for stopping power and effectiveness and usually when I think of such bullets, I think wadcutter. I don't want to think 1 dimensionally and I like to seek out what else is good in the event I can't get certain bullets and the two that have caught my eye are these:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...357-diameter-86-grain-arx-frangible-lead-free

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=225

I think the polymer bullet would be best for the .38 because it will work well at the slower velocity, but the spire point would be great in .357 because it's gas checked and the design and weight will maximize penetration.

What do you guys think is a good bullet style for handloads for self defense?
 
RP Golden Sabre but only in factory ammo.

Tack driver for accuracy.

Any SD bullet will do, none of them are slouches any more and all have their success and failures (Simply because a pistol is a poor SD weapon)
 
RC20 said:
Simply because a pistol is a poor SD weapon
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I used to think that until the night I needed to clear my house with my at the time preferred HD weapon ( 12ga shotgun ) . I buddy keeps a G19 in a lock box on his night stand and I used to think "why not use his shotgun" which I know he has . So one day I asked that very question . He gave me a rather smart answer which was the pistol is to make sure I can get to my shotgun .

Back to my point and me clearing my house room by room by my self with a two handed weapon . FWIW there was no choice , I either hide in my bedroom and hope nothing is wrong or I go find out . At the time and no longer I left my keys , phone , wallet etc in a dish by the kitchen or better said the other side of the house .

So there I am in my bedroom dead ended at the end of the hall with no way of calling anyone for help when there are bumps in the night . I grab my shotgun and open my bedroom door ( first time I had to take one hand of a two handed weapon ) . Then cross the hall into the laundry ( door was open no issue ) . Next head further down the hall to bedroom number two . Door needs to be open to enter (2nd time one hand needs to come off a two handed weapon ) . Clear that room and down the hall to the next bedroom . Yep door closed , I'll tell ya when entering a room that you strongly believe could have a bad guy right behind the door and you are at best half ready to use your HD weapon is not a good feeling . What if the bad guy was right on the other side and slam the door back in my face then opened it real quick to attack . I know I would not have been ready to use the shotgun or any long gun . What if you're trying to shepard your kids out of the house or move them to safety like getting everyone into one room . How do you securely hold a two handed weapon at the ready at all times while holding your child's hand to guide them along or to keep them behind you ?

Nope , for me in my home a handgun is by far the better option . Being able to have your HD weapon ready and in complete control while at the same time having one hand free to do any number of tasks from opening doors , helping the family or calling 911 is a no brainer now for me .

FWIW it turned out to be nothing in my house but it did change my mind as to what's the best HD choice for me . As my buddy says If I need to go to one of my long guns . The hand gun is going to allow that to happen .

Truthtellers : you don't get real specific as to what type of defense you are putting up or what needs to be considered .

Kids in the house so low penetration is best to avoid bullets going through walls ?

No worries about penetration and is why you don't care about HP and you are looking for hard hitting deep penetration ?

My first thought was wadcutter as well . I'd think based on what you've said so far I say something lead . no jackets that way you get some deformating and maybe a multi track wound . Low penetration = something light , deep penetration = something a bit heavier . I would never do fragable for HD/SD . If those are coming out of a snub nose 38 and hit bone just past the surface that bullet is done right there and the bad guys just gets a little boo-boo .
 
Don't discount the expansion capability of lead hollowpoints at snubnose velocities. The bullet in the middle and the bullet on the right were both fired out of my snubnose revolver. Also, make sure you use a heavy for caliber bullet to ensure good penetration.

Don

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So, do you want/expect ANY expansion?
BTW, You won't get much anyway from the snubbie 38 unless you use some of the "low velocity specific" HP or soft lead cast/swaged.
Even a short barreled 357 may not meet the expansion velocity threshold of bullets designed for upper end velocities.
If you just want to punch a hole, use JSP or hard(er) cast lead.
When I carried a 357 as a chore gun, it was loaded with 3 850 fps swaged lead HP followed by 3 1200 fps 158 JHP loads. The swaged lead worked great for varmints under 25 yards and the JHP could handle whatever I encountered out to as far as I could make a hit.
 
If you use a JHP and it fails to expand you're still left with a better bullet than either of the ones linked to.

I've have good luck with 135 grain spire points accuracy wise, but the increased penetration comes from the fact that it would slip through any tissue with the least amount of damage of any bullet. I'd take a full wadcutters over a spire point or the goofy 86 grain bullet that has no load data and the POI is going to be way off.
 
I'm looking for a good bullet to reload for defense against beast and man in .38 snub revolvers and .357 revolvers. My preference is it not rely on expansion for stopping power and effectiveness
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Folks are continuously vainly searching for that "magic" bullet. That polymer bullet is a joke. Your rifling is not going to give it enough spin for those groves to do any cutting and the light weight means you would get little penetration, especially when you're out hunting those "beasts". While the Spire point will give you the impression it would penetrate deeper because of the appearance, the skinny point would probably turn into a roundnose before it went thru the perp's jacket or the "beasts" hide. For SD/HD I want a bullet that shoots very well from the intended firearm first. Then I want a bullet that has been proven over time to have effective terminal performance when it hits the intended target. Many times this does not mean the same bullet for all. My hunting bullets(think "beasts") are different from my SD/HD bullets. My .38 SD/HD bullets are different than my .357SD/HD bullets.

My suggestion.....stick with the wadcutters or rethink JHPs and JSPs. Some of what you want can be accomplished just as well with a FMJ or standard cast bullet profile. JMTCs.
 
I purchased some 9mm ammo with the Inceptor bullets, but the jury is still out. One of my house guns is loaded with cast DEWC, running about 15 BHN, over near max./max. loads of W231. Out of my 3" 38 Special I get about just under 800 fps. I figger the flat, full caliber point will inflict a lot of tissue damage and not penetrate many walls and reach my neighbor...
 
Get a good solid lead bullet. The heavier ones are best! You want to stop a pest? First you have to hit it. Learn to shoot!
 
The expansion capability of lead hollow points is the same as any cast bullet without an HP.
"...not rely on expansion for stopping power and effectiveness..." No such thing as stopping power, but effectiveness is about shot placement. So use the ammo your revolvers and you can shoot the most accurately.
 
buck460XVR said:
Folks are continuously vainly searching for that "magic" bullet. That polymer bullet is a joke. Your rifling is not going to give it enough spin for those groves to do any cutting and the light weight means you would get little penetration, especially when you're out hunting those "beasts". While the Spire point will give you the impression it would penetrate deeper because of the appearance, the skinny point would probably turn into a roundnose before it went thru the perp's jacket or the "beasts" hide. For SD/HD I want a bullet that shoots very well from the intended firearm first. Then I want a bullet that has been proven over time to have effective terminal performance when it hits the intended target. Many times this does not mean the same bullet for all. My hunting bullets(think "beasts") are different from my SD/HD bullets. My .38 SD/HD bullets are different than my .357SD/HD bullets.

My suggestion.....stick with the wadcutters or rethink JHPs and JSPs. Some of what you want can be accomplished just as well with a FMJ or standard cast bullet profile. JMTCs.
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Hmm, very straight and to the point. Probably would be best to use a heavier bullet, 145 to 160 grains, for deeper penetration in .38 Special. The polymer bullet actually does penetrate pretty well for human targets and the nose flutes aren't what do the damage, it's the tumbling bullet that does.

I think you made a good case for using a heavy bullet in the snub .38 though. It will find a role for woods work.

As for .357, maybe I'd be better off sticking with Speer and Hornady JHP bullets.
 
Mobuck said:
So, do you want/expect ANY expansion?
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No and no.

BTW, You won't get much anyway from the snubbie 38 unless you use some of the "low velocity specific" HP or soft lead cast/swaged.
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Correct

Even a short barreled 357 may not meet the expansion velocity threshold of bullets designed for upper end velocities.
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I'm thinking for .357 I'll just use JHP's. The bullets are very available and close to the cost of cast lead. All my .357's are 4 inches or longer. Plenty of velocity.

If you just want to punch a hole, use JSP or hard(er) cast lead.
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That's what I'm thinking. For .38 Special in a snub revolver, this is a good option for heavier bullets around 150 grains.

When I carried a 357 as a chore gun, it was loaded with 3 850 fps swaged lead HP followed by 3 1200 fps 158 JHP loads. The swaged lead worked great for varmints under 25 yards and the JHP could handle whatever I encountered out to as far as I could make a hit.
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Cool, but I don't like to mix up ammo in a cylinder.
 
I carry Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWCHP 38Spl +P in my everyday carry (Colt Detective snubbie)...and man they pack a wallop.
 
I don't know why you are looking for something other than hollow points...
I'm aware some states don't allow them.

I think someone has to play the devil's advocate here,
And consider the legal ramifications *IF* you have to shoot (or shoot at) a human.

Expect to be charged with (suspicion of) homicide.
Expect every choice in powder, primer, case, bullet & firearm to be dragged out endlessly.
Keep in mind, doesn't matter if you kill the person or not, doesn't matter if you aren't charged, charges are dropped, or you are aquitted, you can expect to be sued by ambulance chasing lawyers and anti-firearms lawyers more than willing to drag things out and cost you a ton of legal fees.

Just like all big truck drivers are serial killers and all big trucks death machines, every firearms owner is a target for these lawyers, some seeking a settlement for cash, some on a crusade against firearms.

One of the few things you can do is buy FACTORY ammo advertised & sold as 'Self Defense' or 'Home Defense'.
It may or may not provide the 'Best' results, but it spreads the blame out to the manufacturer so you might get some legal help.

It also keeps the ambulance chasers from making you out to be a mad scientist in your basement devising ways to kill humans on your death machine hand loader...

I'd also advise anyone that carries regularly to get a supplemental personal insurance policy.
It's not a ton of extra money when purchased with home/auto insurance, and it will buy you a good legal defense, criminal or civil.

----

As for terminal ballistics, it's a crap shoot...
The bullet exits the target, it's wasted energy, so pointless to have 'Super Duper' penetration.
Keep in mind how thick a man's torso is, anything that penetrates more than about 8" is pretty much wasted.

Penetration is an issue, bare chested or wife beater 'T'shirt,
Or some alley prowler with 3 hoodies & heavy leather jacket with pockets full of crap?

(In some areas, it's belt buckles heavier than my 60s military body armor...)

Law enforcement has struggled with this time & time again.
From .38-.38 spl that didn't penetrate, to longer barrel .357s that blew through bad guys and hit civilians, to FBI getting their butts handed to them in FL to the Hollywood shootout where two guys shot two dozen cops to pieces.

No matter how many words are wasted, it's a crap shoot since you have to deal with bad guys the way they come, bare chested to wrapped up in leather & padding. There is exactly ZERO common bullets that will work in all situations...
And when you get right down to it, zero speciality bullets also.

I've seen the frangible mixed metals, epoxy & synthetics, and all are defeated by something or another, one very promising frangible is defeated by outside temp changes...

Just pointing out the already known and obvious, shot placement is still your best friend.
 
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