What are the best hand guns to learn marksmanship

M

McCarthy

Moderator
Well I think I got the need for more odd ball calibers out of my system and now its time to focus on marksmanship.

I started shooting untrained about 5 years ago, bought a G29, S&W 500 ES, NAA .22 Magnum and a GP100 .327 Federal Magnum is on its way. I also started reloading a couple weeks ago and shot my first self rolled rounds today.

Before I headed out today I replaced the Glock stock barrel with a LoneWolf. When I was done testing my rounds I tried really hard to archive some good results. I was surprise that I could get a couple decent groups together. Maybe the LoneWolf barrel helped. But I also realized that I flinch and blink every first round of a magazine, sometimes even more.

The 10mm rounds had been pretty hot. The brass bouncing of the wall right into my face didn't help.

I really like reloading so far but now its time to learn how to shot really well.

What hand gun do you guys suggest to get me started with? Will the .327 work? Any good marksmanship books or DVDs out there?
 
Many, many, MANY different options and most of them are not bad options... some of them may be better than others. Since I happen to be here first, I'll simply go with -ONE- option that I like a whole heckuva lot:

.22cal semi-auto pistol
And for this task, not a toy/plinker type (thus, not a GSG/Sig 1911 or Mosquito, no Ruger SR-22 or Walther P-22 or M&P-22)

Instead, something with a fixed barrel and a short-pull single action only trigger.

Think: Ruger Mark I/II/III, Browning Buck Mark, Colt Woodsman or variant, High Standard, or any of many, many other players.

The fixed barrel just -OOZES- accuracy and repeatability that most larger caliber guns wish they could produce. But perhaps more important than any other factor is that you can shoot far more ammo, getting yourself much more trigger time... for less money.

Yes, rimfire ammo has been a royally stupid adventure since the Connecticut school massacre. We all know this. And it remains a difficult thing to chase and yeah, the prices have gone up across the board.

Even still, it's cheaper than center fire ammo. And I am speaking from the point of a 25+ year hardcore hobbyist handloader, it's STILL CHEAPER. And while I love handloading, the kind of volume of shooting you can do with decent bulk .22LR ammo is not something I need to add to my list of tasks.

If you have along with you a dedicated rimfire pistol as I mentioned above and you shoot 200-300-500 rounds from it with every range trip you take (some of us shoot in longer sessions than others...) you WILL polish your skills and you will become a better shooter.
 
As much as I like the target style .22 autos for leaning and ingraining the fundamentals, which are vital to consistant accuracy ..... a .22 won't cure the flinch.


Try using a ball and dummy drill- have a friend load the gun with a mix of live rounds and dummies/snap caps so that you can't know where the dummies fall in sequence ..... and hand the gun to you. Concentrate on hitting the target, and if you flinch on a dummy, it'll be obvious. You can take this a step further by going straight into a malfuction drill when you get a click instead of a boom, too.
 
A .22LR and/or a DA/SA revolver (shot DA, of course ;)). A good .22LR revolver fits both bills.


Generally, though, IMO, the best handguns to learn marksmanship will have good (adjustable) sights, a good trigger, good inherent accuracy, and shoot a round that doesn't recoil excessively and isn't excessively expensive.

Such guns are good quality, so you won't find this combination über-cheap, but you won't have to pay a king's ransom, either. Still, someone learning marksmanship is far better served with a good accurate gun, IMO.

In rimfire, good candidates are the Ruger MkIII, Browning Buckmark and S&W Model 41 semi-autos and a S&W 617 revolver.

In centerfire, I'd stick with 9mm in a semi-auto platform or .38spl in revolver. There are a bunch of options here. In semi-auto, look into any of the CZ75 variants. In a new revolver, look into the S&W 686 and 66 and the Ruger GP100. These are chambered in .357mag, but I'd strongly advise shooting .38spls instead of .357mags. There are some good used S&W revolvers on the market, too, and a used S&W model 14 or 15 .38spl in good condition would be an excellent choice.
 
McCarthy said:
What hand gun do you guys suggest to get me started with? Will the .327 work? Any good marksmanship books or DVDs out there?
Click to expand...

Apologies. I just read your OP a little closer.

Your GP100 is "on they way"...meaning you already bought it? If not, I'd opt for the .357mag/.38spl and load up some .38spl target loads.

But if so, I think your GP100 .327mag will work, but I wouldn't shoot .327mags through it. It'll shoot the .32H&R mag and the .32 long, much as a .357mag still shoots .38spl and .38 Long colt. Since you reload, I'd look into loading some .32H&R or even .32 Long target loads. The .32 Long is an excellent target round, so .32wadcutter bullets ought to be available.

As far as good marksmanship books & DVDs, there are several. Look into The Pistol Shooter's Treasury.

And here are 2 longish threads from THR on shooting fundamentals. Since they were posted in their "Revolver" section, they seem relevant. And they're free ;).

Single Action vs. Double Action

Single Action vs. Double Action, Part II
 
The gun isn't important when learning to shoot well.
Any good quality one will do.
Most will be more accurate than the shooter.
Find a good instructor who will work with you to show you how and to correct your technique.
Otherwise you will be mostly just slinging lead downrange.
 
Your GP100 is "on they way"...meaning you already bought it? If not, I'd opt for the .357mag/.38spl and load up some .38spl target loads.
Click to expand...

I don't see why it would be any harder for him to do anything with the .327 than a .357: he reloads. He can make ".32 special target loads" ..... for about what he can make .38's ..... and when he starts casting, he can do it cheaper.......
 
Thanks for all the good info, much appreciated.

If I'm understanding all this right it bolts down to my .327 revolver (bought and will arrive in 2 days) since its a quality firearm (GP 100), cheap to reload with 32 long wadcutters, will help me cure my flinch and I could play Russian roulette with blankets without having to bring a friend.

If that doesn't do the trick I'll go for the Ruger Mark III Competition.

The book "Pistol Shooters Treasury" is not in print-production anymore and used ones go for $90+

Any other book or DVD suggestions?

I'll also ask around at my local outdoor range for a good instructor.
 
1) Find a quality instructor that will teach you modern pistol shooting skills. Just because they have been shooting for xx years does not mean they are a good instructor or teach a modern grip and stance. Generally if you find an instructor who is ranked higher in GSSF, USPSA, or IDPA they will likely be using modern techniques. As far as being a good instructor, get references.

2) Once you know what the proper grip and stance is, DRY FIRE, DRY FIRE, DRY FIRE. It is not necessarily as fun as shooting a gun, but you can advance your skills a huge amount without spending any money at all. That is a fact.

3) Wincing on a shot is a mental block to overcome. You just have to accept the fact that recoil happens. You aren't going to stop it, but you can minimize it through proper grip and stance. You have to convince yourself initially to forget that the "bang!" is going to happen. Put all of your concentration into site alignment, focusing on the front sight, and squeezing the trigger.

Regarding which pistol for live fire, smaller calibers such as 22LR, .380, etc are probably going to allow you to overcome the flinching more quickly.

Fly
 
If I'm understanding all this right it bolts down to my .327 revolver (bought and will arrive in 2 days) since its a quality firearm (GP 100), cheap to reload with 32 long wadcutters, will help me cure my flinch and I could play Russian roulette with blankets without having to bring a friend.
Click to expand...

Dunno what blankets are going to do for ya .....:D

.... but as I understand it, spinning the cylinder in the gun is not good for the internals, nor is spinning it and flicking it closed.

Your idea is sound though: a snap cap or two mixed with the live rounds, cylinder spun and closed without looking would make an effective ball and dummy drill for a revolver.

Wincing on a shot is a mental block to overcome. You just have to accept the fact that recoil happens. You aren't going to stop it, but you can minimize it through proper grip and stance. You have to convince yourself initially to forget that the "bang!" is going to happen. Put all of your concentration into site alignment, focusing on the front sight, and squeezing the trigger.
Click to expand...

Well said. There are a couple of things that help with the "acceptance": realizing when you are doing it- "Ball and Dummy" works for that. The other is seeing an immediate result of doing right- having an attainable goal that gives immediate feedback. To this end, I suggest reactive targets- clays on a berm, small steel plates, water bottles- anything that will have your lizard brain anticipating a reward rather than a punishment .... thinking that "I'm gonna pop that bottle!", rather than "I'm going to get smacked in the hand!" One last thing- ease into it: start with target loads, and work up to flamethowers..... the flamethrowers will certain explode water bottles with more alacrity, but only if your hit them.....and your brain will readily say, "I've done this before...." without noticing small increases in recoil ..... but go from .22lr to flamethrower level and you subconsiously differentiate the two: brain says "That was just .22, and this is going to hurt....."

I used all of these when getting my kids ready to hunt- they learned to shoot with .22lr ..... but that's not an option for hunting turkeys and deer. Using all of the above, I had my oldest daughter sucessfully hunting both with a 20 guage and a 30/30 and full power ammunition at the ripe old age of 12....
 
jimbob86 said:
I don't see why it would be any harder for him to do anything with the .327 than a .357: he reloads.
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The .32 Long's a fine target load, but .38 components and loads are likely easier to find. At any rate, it's a moot point, as he's got a .327 coming.

jimbob86 said:
but as I understand it, spinning the cylinder in the gun is not good for the internals, nor is spinning it and flicking it closed.
Click to expand...

Spinning the cylinder while the cylinder's closed isn't harmful.

Whether flicking the cylinder closed actually harms the gun is debatable, but, regardless, it's seriously poor revolver form. Do it to your own gun, and it exposes you as a total revolver noob. Doing it to someone else's gun might just earn you a punch in the nose.

jimbob86 said:
To this end, I suggest reactive targets- clays on a berm, small steel plates, water bottles- anything that will have your lizard brain anticipating a reward rather than a punishment .... thinking that "I'm gonna pop that bottle!", rather than "I'm going to get smacked in the hand!"
Click to expand...

For a number of reasons, I advise against plinking to learn marksmanship. Ever notice plinking's not an official sport. ;)

And I'd recommend against thinking "I'm gonna do xyz to the target" while you're shooting. Your focus is best put on the process of executing a shot correctly. Do that, and the target will take care of itself. If you don't do that, and put your focus on the target or recoil, don't expect to improve much.
 
MrB- I was commenting upon what has worked in my experience to overcome flinching by new shooters ..... I know this works, and quickly.

Maybe once the OP cures his flinch, he can move on to an "official sport".....
 
I have a friend who was the flinch king.
Nothing seemed to work to cure him.
Until a very experienced and competent fellow told him to do this:
Set up one target at a distance far enough to require really good focus in order to hit it.
Then imagine it's the most dangerous critter ever, and it's coming straight for you.
And if you don't hit that monster right where it counts with at least three shots, you're a goner.
If your imagination doesn't work so good, get or make a target of a a T-REX or something.
Use a timer and go at the sound of the buzzer, just to enhance the experience.
Lacking a timer, just have someone holler "Go."
It worked, too, causing Mr. Flinch to forget about everything except getting those hits.
It's worth a try, can't hurt.
 
whether you flinch or not, the gun will go "bang" when you pull the trigger. but if you flinch, you will miss. not missing is more important, so quit flinching.
 
38 Special

I believe that revolvers produce trigger discipline. And 38 Specials are inherently accurate. So for me, the choice for target shooting is easy. This is my baby. It's a Smith 67 (38 Special - not a 357). She gets a lot of range time and I use it in ICORE, Steel, & IDPA competition. I got it just less than a year ago (3/15/14) and already has thousands of rounds through it. It's dedicated for sport and range duty only. 90% of the ammo I load is for use in this gun.

Model%2067_2015-03-09_1857_zps5mfvc5hx.jpg
 
g.willikers said:
It may not be the gun, but how much you've used it that's allowed you to get good with it.
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True, but IMO, a revolver is a particularly excellent platform to start with. IME, the transition from good revolver shooting to good semi-auto shooting is much easier than the other way around.
 
The transition from good revolver shooting to good semi-auto shooting is much easier than the other way around.
Click to expand...

I agree. There is a fair amount of "apples n oranges;" but on balance, this is definitely true.
 
Thanks again for all the feedback. I'll take all your suggestions in consideration.

Ruger GP100 in .327 Fed Mag. Arrived today, just added the grips. Maybe I'll do better with .32 S&W long out of this revolver. I'll report back.

Img_3441.png
 
Nick_C_S said:
I agree. There is a fair amount of "apples n oranges;" but on balance, this is definitely true.
Click to expand...

I, too, am a match revolver junkie. When I switched to semi-auto for a little mental R&R, I got my Master classification with that bone-stock semi-auto after my first sanctioned match. For a little more R&R, I took up High Power Rifle shooting, and at my second match, posted a High Master score to take the match win over six or seven master-level HP shooters.

In contrast, I've known a couple really good (i.e. master level) semi-auto shooters who switched to revolver for the same reason (mental R&R), but languished as revolver Experts, eventually going back to semi-auto in frustration.

The "apples & oranges" is more about the gun handling specifics, but shooting a revolver well, especially in competition, really teaches you to do the fundamentals well. If you do the fundamentals well, you can work out the details.


Nice gun, McCarthy. We'll look forward to your range report. ;)
 
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