What antis have to say about TFL
- Thread starter SPUSCG
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cool hand luke 22:36
New member
As far as I recall, a few years back, the The Firing Line's sister site "The High Road" was visited by a woman whose husband had been murdered. She asked a few questions about why so many gun owners object to what she felt were "common sense" gun control measures.
She was apparently put through the wringer, with some posters even alleging that she was a troll who was making up the story.
She was the real deal, and posted about her experience on her own blog. The bottom line was that she concluded that the regulars at THR were, in her words: a bunch of losers with nothing better to do than sit around at 3:00am in their underwear posting to message boards.
I think it's safe to conclude that her attitude is common amongst the gun control crowd and includes all the gun message boards.
She was apparently put through the wringer, with some posters even alleging that she was a troll who was making up the story.
She was the real deal, and posted about her experience on her own blog. The bottom line was that she concluded that the regulars at THR were, in her words: a bunch of losers with nothing better to do than sit around at 3:00am in their underwear posting to message boards.
I think it's safe to conclude that her attitude is common amongst the gun control crowd and includes all the gun message boards.
I think it is a common misconception that Liberals are as passionate about the issue as this site is. While there is commonly a different viewpoint, the issue of guns and gun-control isn't at the top of their list.
The less sites like the kos and others talk about guns, the less the issue will be attached to a party. The last thing you would want is for a party to be taking the platform that it is anti-gun. That would serve to have more people voting against gun rights rather than a slow movement (currently occurring) towards intra-party diversity, where legislators vote their own minds or those of their constituents versus a party block vote. [Note: if you look at Obama or Clinton's website, thoughts on guns are conspicuously absent versus issues like economy, health care, abortion, etc.. ]
Honestly, I think the sentiment that is missed on this site is that people who don't own guns or are around them are simply not thinking about them until situations come up (family members hurt, reading about drive-by's in the newspaper, etc). THIS "not thinking about them" is revealed when people are asked to vote pro/con about them: guns are inherently scary devices designed to allow people to kill other people at a distance. If you haven't THOUGHT about guns and politics in any meaningful way, OF COURSE the immediate response is to not like them.
Silver Bullet
New member
I haven’t see any sites where the antis were talking about TFL or THR, but you can find sites where leftist whackos are talking about guns rather unfavorably.
Here’s an interesting example from a few years ago on THR:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=99988
With nearly 15,000 views and nearly 200 replies, I think it’s safe to say that that thread has something for everybody ! Dad, Mom, the kids, even Grandma. It’s the kind of thread where the whole family can just pull up to the ol’ monitor with a cold drink, and go through the posts (both on DU and THR) and laugh their guts out together ! Even teenagers will temporarily put aside their know-it-all posturing to join in the family fun.
Don't be surprised if little Rover starts running around in circles and barking in joy as he joins in the merriment ! Even the family anti-gun whacko, while outwardly hostile, will start cracking an embarrassed grin as the truth of the message flows over her like the high tide over a clam !
Here’s an interesting example from a few years ago on THR:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=99988
With nearly 15,000 views and nearly 200 replies, I think it’s safe to say that that thread has something for everybody ! Dad, Mom, the kids, even Grandma. It’s the kind of thread where the whole family can just pull up to the ol’ monitor with a cold drink, and go through the posts (both on DU and THR) and laugh their guts out together ! Even teenagers will temporarily put aside their know-it-all posturing to join in the family fun.
Don't be surprised if little Rover starts running around in circles and barking in joy as he joins in the merriment ! Even the family anti-gun whacko, while outwardly hostile, will start cracking an embarrassed grin as the truth of the message flows over her like the high tide over a clam !
At least conversations are occurring where both sides are involved. There really should be more of an effort to provide an open forum here for those that simply are antis.
Wouldn't it be best to be open to allowing them to have their voice before showing them the error of their beliefs and leading them out of the anti wilderness?
Currently, it doesn't look like either a) there is a real location for this or b) anyone having an anti viewpoint wouldn't be flamed out of existence (maybe nuke would be a more accurate description)
Wouldn't it be best to be open to allowing them to have their voice before showing them the error of their beliefs and leading them out of the anti wilderness?
Currently, it doesn't look like either a) there is a real location for this or b) anyone having an anti viewpoint wouldn't be flamed out of existence (maybe nuke would be a more accurate description)
Rich Miranda
New member
All right, now I'm REALLY scared. There is a hidden camera somewhere in my home office. As of yet I am unable to find it...
More on topic, I am new to TFL and I've never seen anything written against it.
Me personally, I am no stranger to violence, but it would seem it has had the opposite effect on me as on many antis. When I was 18 I was carjacked, kidnapped, robbed of everything I had, and left in the middle of nowhere. I thank the Lord that I was not killed. Partly because of this episode, I strongly believe in my right to keep and bear arms.
As most posters here seem to be, I am/try to be a responsible gun owner. I shoot for sport (aka fun) and for self-defense. I don't know how anyone can give up their right to defend their lives. I like the police, I trust the police. I support the police. But the police are 2-5 minutes away and that's an awful long time in a life or death situation. The antis are gambling they'll survive it. I'm trying to ensure I will.
RedneckFur
New member
In the short period of time I've been here, I've not seen any anti's on TFL. I'm sure they stumble across the site every now and then, but I'm willing to bet that most dont bother to make an account and post.
I think the problem with most ani-gunners is simply lack of education. I think that they fear guns because their limited contact with firearms is only what hollywood shows them, and the ocasional bad guy on the 6 o'clock news.
I think most anti's, if given a chance to shoot an entry level firearm in a low pressure enviroment, can become suporters of the 2nd Amendment.
I think the problem with most ani-gunners is simply lack of education. I think that they fear guns because their limited contact with firearms is only what hollywood shows them, and the ocasional bad guy on the 6 o'clock news.
I think most anti's, if given a chance to shoot an entry level firearm in a low pressure enviroment, can become suporters of the 2nd Amendment.
Kreyzhorse
New member
I thought I was only one who couldn't find that camera!
The true militant anti would not be here to be educated, but would simply wish to troll for arguments. The fence sitter would not usually bother to look for this place and post.
The lady whose husband was killed is lashing out because she needs somewhere to place blame. It is a normal part of the grieving process.
If you ask most people who are anti, they will of course tell you that they want more gun control. The thing is, they are (for the most part) not basing their vote on the issue, they vote for liberals who happen to be anti-gun. Gunnies (again, for the most part) tend to vote against anti-gun politicians who happen to be liberal.
That is why you don't hear a lot about gun control (other than platitudes) during an election- being FOR gun control won't win you any votes, but it can lose you an election.
Same thing here, I think.
spfb said:
I mean no disrespect, but it would probably go a long way towards understanding if everyone on here cut out the "wackjob liberal" comments, especially to start off a thread. Just sayin' it's not a good way to make friends with the neighbors.
And before the 1st amendment comments: Yes you have the right to say whatever you want, but if you want the "wackjob liberals" to understand us "gun owners" it would help to not insult them. In my opinion, we have a social responsibility to act like compassionate understanding individuals who happen to like firearms.
/soapbox
MedicineBow
New member
In your dreams. 99% of folks could not care any less what right-wingers or left-wingers say to each other on the internet.
The political chatter here is fairly standard. And the great shooting/hunting information is largely politics-free.
Hello Everyone!
This is my first post.
First off, I’d like to say I really enjoy reading the Firing Line forum, especially the legal and political posts. I find the discourse interesting and there are some wonderfully intelligent people on this board! Honestly, one of the highlights of my day is reading some of the new posts here. I love a good debate.
I am a democrat. I grew up in a large east coast city with an astronomical crime rate and some controversial gun control measures. My parent’s were not anti-gun, but I definitely grew up with the idea that guns were dangerous and I was scared of them. Thankfully, I have met some patient and educated gun owners from other parts of the country who introduced me to shooting, and helped me learn and get rid of my many misconceptions. Now I enjoy accompanying friends to the range, and find myself more and more interested in guns everyday.
I do not know of any liberal webpages that mention the Firing Line. I was turned onto it by a friend of mine who is a gun enthusiast (who is also a democrat). But I can say with all honesty that I do not hate you guys!
That being said, I do think that it you can catch more flies with honey when it comes to advancing 2A rights. Liberals don’t like being called socialists, commies, fascists, or wackjobs any more than conservatives do. I think that being neutral and non-partisan is key to getting more people like me to drop their defensiveness about guns. I personally would love to see more gun enthusiasts set up workshops where people can come in and learn about guns and how they work in an atmosphere that is really neutral. Nothing partisan, nothing political, just gun awareness. Having some nice people clue me in about guns really helped me a lot, and I think it can help others and really solidify 2a rights.
I’d be more than happy to answer any questions you have about my transition from gun scaredy cat to gun appreciator. I really like this site, and I am glad I found it.
And no, I am not a troll. I promise! I read every day I just haven't had much to add to the discussion, but this felt like a good one for me to pop into.
This is my first post.
First off, I’d like to say I really enjoy reading the Firing Line forum, especially the legal and political posts. I find the discourse interesting and there are some wonderfully intelligent people on this board! Honestly, one of the highlights of my day is reading some of the new posts here. I love a good debate.
I am a democrat. I grew up in a large east coast city with an astronomical crime rate and some controversial gun control measures. My parent’s were not anti-gun, but I definitely grew up with the idea that guns were dangerous and I was scared of them. Thankfully, I have met some patient and educated gun owners from other parts of the country who introduced me to shooting, and helped me learn and get rid of my many misconceptions. Now I enjoy accompanying friends to the range, and find myself more and more interested in guns everyday.
I do not know of any liberal webpages that mention the Firing Line. I was turned onto it by a friend of mine who is a gun enthusiast (who is also a democrat). But I can say with all honesty that I do not hate you guys!
That being said, I do think that it you can catch more flies with honey when it comes to advancing 2A rights. Liberals don’t like being called socialists, commies, fascists, or wackjobs any more than conservatives do. I think that being neutral and non-partisan is key to getting more people like me to drop their defensiveness about guns. I personally would love to see more gun enthusiasts set up workshops where people can come in and learn about guns and how they work in an atmosphere that is really neutral. Nothing partisan, nothing political, just gun awareness. Having some nice people clue me in about guns really helped me a lot, and I think it can help others and really solidify 2a rights.
I’d be more than happy to answer any questions you have about my transition from gun scaredy cat to gun appreciator. I really like this site, and I am glad I found it.
And no, I am not a troll. I promise! I read every day I just haven't had much to add to the discussion, but this felt like a good one for me to pop into.applesanity
New member
I think I've told this story once before; this one time, we were all at a friend's house, and somehow the topic of guns came up, probably because I was talking about being at the range earlier . Suddenly this one girl goes up into a crazy rant about how they're all evil and all gunowners are crazy yokel rednecks with confederate flags on pickup trucks.
So I point out that I'm gun owner. Since that first argument fails, she switches to, "why would you ever need a gun? Are you going to shoot up a post office? Are you just compensating for a small _____" And so on.
Obviously, there's no point in arguing. I just so remembered that I had a gun safely locked up in my trunk (was at the range earlier), so I go get it. (the host was okay with guns) I bring the gun in, check to see that it's totally unloaded. Then I check it again. And then again. Then one more time to be absolutely positively sure. Then I hand the gun over to the raging girl.
"Get that thing away from me!"
"Look, I've emptied the gun. It's definitely unloaded. See? Look here. No bullets. Wanna hold it?"
"No, get it away form me!"
"Have you ever held a gun?"
".... um.... no."
"Then why not. I mean, it's not like you're gonna shoot up a post office or anything, right?"
"Okay fine."
So I hand over the gun, and she inspects it. I cringe a little everytime she sweeps the barrel at my friends. I have to tell over and over to take her &^$% finger off the trigger.
"But there are no bullets in it. So what?"
"Well, it's reckless behavior like that that causes accidents. You're not reckless, are you?"
After about a minute, she's all smiles (and continues to sweep everyone again - and that's why I checked the gun over and over).
Moral of the story: Most of the sentiment against guns is emotional. No use in using logic agains them.
Concerning the OP: I don't it's until you bring the subject up, or someone in the neighborhood gets shot, does the topic of gun control/ rights come up. It's just not a big issue for them, seeing as how they don't own guns. Their rights aren't being threatened. Also, the talk of guns don't much come up often in daily conversation. CCW owners deliberately make a point not to let anyone know they're packing. If regular people just knew how many people - friends, coworkers, that stranger in the subway car - are gunowners or gasp! even carrying this very moment, then they'll get some exposure. Exposure will fix it all.
I mean, consider those surveys that you occasionally get, or the small talk when meeting people, or interviews.
"Please list your hobbies and interests."
"Well let's see, I'm into photography, making models of WWII airplanes (still finishing John C. Meyer's P-51D Mustang), baseball, and...um... tack driving."
"Wait, what was that last part?"
So I point out that I'm gun owner. Since that first argument fails, she switches to, "why would you ever need a gun? Are you going to shoot up a post office? Are you just compensating for a small _____" And so on.
Obviously, there's no point in arguing. I just so remembered that I had a gun safely locked up in my trunk (was at the range earlier), so I go get it. (the host was okay with guns) I bring the gun in, check to see that it's totally unloaded. Then I check it again. And then again. Then one more time to be absolutely positively sure. Then I hand the gun over to the raging girl.
"Get that thing away from me!"
"Look, I've emptied the gun. It's definitely unloaded. See? Look here. No bullets. Wanna hold it?"
"No, get it away form me!"
"Have you ever held a gun?"
".... um.... no."
"Then why not. I mean, it's not like you're gonna shoot up a post office or anything, right?"
"Okay fine."
So I hand over the gun, and she inspects it. I cringe a little everytime she sweeps the barrel at my friends. I have to tell over and over to take her &^$% finger off the trigger.
"But there are no bullets in it. So what?"
"Well, it's reckless behavior like that that causes accidents. You're not reckless, are you?"
After about a minute, she's all smiles (and continues to sweep everyone again - and that's why I checked the gun over and over).
Moral of the story: Most of the sentiment against guns is emotional. No use in using logic agains them.
Concerning the OP: I don't it's until you bring the subject up, or someone in the neighborhood gets shot, does the topic of gun control/ rights come up. It's just not a big issue for them, seeing as how they don't own guns. Their rights aren't being threatened. Also, the talk of guns don't much come up often in daily conversation. CCW owners deliberately make a point not to let anyone know they're packing. If regular people just knew how many people - friends, coworkers, that stranger in the subway car - are gunowners or gasp! even carrying this very moment, then they'll get some exposure. Exposure will fix it all.
I mean, consider those surveys that you occasionally get, or the small talk when meeting people, or interviews.
"Please list your hobbies and interests."
"Well let's see, I'm into photography, making models of WWII airplanes (still finishing John C. Meyer's P-51D Mustang), baseball, and...um... tack driving."
"Wait, what was that last part?"
Apple, if you don't mind telling us, how did the girl feel about it after handling the gun? It looks like she was into it (although unsafe about it). Did it change her mind?
The reason I ask is one of the things that helped me was having someone allow me to handle a gun while they explained how it worked, and going over gun safety.
I totally agree with you that it is all emotional. But once I was introduced to guns in a safe environment the logic part took over.
The reason I ask is one of the things that helped me was having someone allow me to handle a gun while they explained how it worked, and going over gun safety.
I totally agree with you that it is all emotional. But once I was introduced to guns in a safe environment the logic part took over.
I've been debating about guns on the Internet since, I don't know, '91 or '92, back before there were web interfaces, on the old Usenet group talk.politics.guns. We had many pro-gunners or all stripes, liberal, libertarian, conservative, L-G-B, straight, and a smattering of anti-gunners, the most vociferous being a couple of Australians. Others would wander in from time to time. I really don't know if anyone's opinion was changed one way or another. Most who stopped by had opinions set, that's why we were there. It did hone out debate and arguing skills on the issue though.