What Am I Missing with the Savage & Tikka?
- Thread starter hopeisnotastrategy
- Start date
Not sure of the guarantee point but recently I purchased a Savage 93-17hmr shot 1.50-1.75 out of the box called Savage told them my results they said send it in, with in 4 weeks it was returned with a target 5 rounds .750, 4 rounds, .450. I reinstalled scope took it out and shot a .600, now what they did I haven't a clue order only said repaired. I've never shot over an 1.00 since with this rifle.
I also have a Savage BTVS in 223 that shot .500 out of the box and less if I do my part, having said all that Savage is not the only manufacture turning out some fine barrels as I posted before I purchased a Thompson Center Icon Precision Hunter that is shooting under .500, .204 Ruger cal.
Odds are good most of the modern rifles will shoot under 1.00 but I do tend to check on warranty more then in prior years as there does exist some quality control issues with all companies.
223 shooter
New member
I think the shooters that say ugly regarding Savage must have only seen their plastic stocked matte finished entry level rifles. In this regard every rifle brand out there has such rifles and none are what I would call pretty to look at. A friend of mine has said the barrel nut is kind of an eyesore but it is allows for easy barrel changes which I may do with my Savage.
I have a Savage 12BVSS and think it is quite a nice looking varmint rig even when comparing next to my 700 VLS. Some of the American Classic sporter rifles I have seen are fine looking rifles to me.
I bought my first hunting sporter last year and picked up a Weatherby Vanguard Deluxe .30-06.
hopeisnotastrategy
New member
Trying to Make A Choice
First, let me say thank you to everyone for your contributions to this discussion. All of it has been REALLY valuable in helping me think through my purchase. I'll have to post your names next to my first trophy whitetail when I hang it on the wall.
I have eliminated all the rifles other than the Tikka and the Savage. I have narrowed down to the Tikka Lite Stainless and the Savage Weather Warrior. I am going to buy the rifle in the .270 WIN caliber.
Please bear with the length of this post, because I have several questions and I'm really splicing hairs at this point.
The Tikka "feels" SLIGHTLY better to me than the Savage. It is lighter and the action is a tad smoother. However, I have a couple of concerns.
1. On Tikka's web site they say that their barrels are floated, but have an asterisk that clarifies that applies to their wooden stocks. Does this mean that their barrels on synthetic stocks are NOT floated?
2. The Tikka is about 3/4 pounds lighter than the Savage. In terms of recoil, could that actually become a disadvantage? It's not like the Savage is heavy enough to become difficult to carry, and I'm wondering if the extra weight might actually make it more enjoyable to shoot.
3. The extraction "claw" on the Savage "looks" a bit more robust. Does anyone have any feedback on the reliability of the bolt mechanism on either of these choices?
For everyone's edification, I spoke directly with Savage and Tikka regarding their accuracy guarantees. Savage guarantees 1.5" at 100 yards out of the box while Tikka guarantees 1" at 100 yards out of the box.
Thanks!
First, let me say thank you to everyone for your contributions to this discussion. All of it has been REALLY valuable in helping me think through my purchase. I'll have to post your names next to my first trophy whitetail when I hang it on the wall.
I have eliminated all the rifles other than the Tikka and the Savage. I have narrowed down to the Tikka Lite Stainless and the Savage Weather Warrior. I am going to buy the rifle in the .270 WIN caliber.
Please bear with the length of this post, because I have several questions and I'm really splicing hairs at this point.
The Tikka "feels" SLIGHTLY better to me than the Savage. It is lighter and the action is a tad smoother. However, I have a couple of concerns.
1. On Tikka's web site they say that their barrels are floated, but have an asterisk that clarifies that applies to their wooden stocks. Does this mean that their barrels on synthetic stocks are NOT floated?
2. The Tikka is about 3/4 pounds lighter than the Savage. In terms of recoil, could that actually become a disadvantage? It's not like the Savage is heavy enough to become difficult to carry, and I'm wondering if the extra weight might actually make it more enjoyable to shoot.
3. The extraction "claw" on the Savage "looks" a bit more robust. Does anyone have any feedback on the reliability of the bolt mechanism on either of these choices?
For everyone's edification, I spoke directly with Savage and Tikka regarding their accuracy guarantees. Savage guarantees 1.5" at 100 yards out of the box while Tikka guarantees 1" at 100 yards out of the box.
Thanks!
hopeisnotastrategy
New member
I have an answer to my own question and thought some of you might like to hear it. I called Tikka, and they said that the barrel on their synthetic stock is NOT fully floated. In it's design it has a couple of places where supports touch the barrel. They followed this up by saying that they guarantee 1 MOA at 100 yards so it doesn't effect accuracy.
I guess this raises the question: is that true? As the weapon is fired and the barrel heats up, will a non-fully floated barrel continue to perform as well as it does cold?
ndking1126
New member
Sometimes a little pressure on the barrel will actually make it a little more accurate. This is typically seen on lower end barrels, like my 700 ADL in .30-06 came with a little pressure point. Sometimes you can remove the point and it will be more accurate though.
Free floating the barrel is typically done because as you shoot, the barrel heats up that pressure point keeps it from expanding uniformly therefore your point of impact tends to string out. Maybe that's not the correct technical details on why it happens, but free floating the barrel typically fixes that.
Simple physics dictates that the extra 3/4lbs will reduce felt recoil, but I doubt it would be very noticeable. The design of the stocks would probably be a bigger factor.
I don't think you ever said how far you will be shooting while hunting, but 1" groups @ 100 yards is plenty accurate enough for hunting (as long as you aren't going way out there). Even 1.5" would be plenty accurate, but I bet the Savage will shoot better than that.
Like you said, you are really splitting hairs here.. between the 2 I would pick the Savage, but if you look at my sig, you can tell I'm biased. I like the free floated barrel, I like the extra weight and I like the beefier extractor claw (I've never personally compared them, just going off what you said). Having a smooth bolt just isn't a big deal to me.. as long as it reliably closes without having to finagle it, it's good for me!
Free floating the barrel is typically done because as you shoot, the barrel heats up that pressure point keeps it from expanding uniformly therefore your point of impact tends to string out. Maybe that's not the correct technical details on why it happens, but free floating the barrel typically fixes that.
Simple physics dictates that the extra 3/4lbs will reduce felt recoil, but I doubt it would be very noticeable. The design of the stocks would probably be a bigger factor.
I don't think you ever said how far you will be shooting while hunting, but 1" groups @ 100 yards is plenty accurate enough for hunting (as long as you aren't going way out there). Even 1.5" would be plenty accurate, but I bet the Savage will shoot better than that.
Like you said, you are really splitting hairs here.. between the 2 I would pick the Savage, but if you look at my sig, you can tell I'm biased. I like the free floated barrel, I like the extra weight and I like the beefier extractor claw (I've never personally compared them, just going off what you said). Having a smooth bolt just isn't a big deal to me.. as long as it reliably closes without having to finagle it, it's good for me!
It seems like the solution is simple: buy a Savage and either get the best wood stock they offer, or settle for synthetic and keep the option open to have a custom stock made for it at some future point if it bothers you enough.
T/C Icon or Encore also seems to be a good option. In a similar level of stock, I bet the prices aren't that far apart. I checked them out at Bass Pro last week, but was disappointed to see that they are asking $700+ for a basic Encore rifle. I think that kind of coin could buy a very nice Savage or Icon.
Check out T/C's page on the Icon. It seems like they really put their heart into designing a great bolt action from the ground up. It may all just be marketing, but it seems to make good engineering sense. One thing I got a kick out of on their site is that every shot in a hunting situation resulted in a victorious fist pump.
Tikkas invariably get great press, but in the end, if I have good American-made options, I'll go that way.
T/C Icon or Encore also seems to be a good option. In a similar level of stock, I bet the prices aren't that far apart. I checked them out at Bass Pro last week, but was disappointed to see that they are asking $700+ for a basic Encore rifle. I think that kind of coin could buy a very nice Savage or Icon.
Check out T/C's page on the Icon. It seems like they really put their heart into designing a great bolt action from the ground up. It may all just be marketing, but it seems to make good engineering sense. One thing I got a kick out of on their site is that every shot in a hunting situation resulted in a victorious fist pump.
Tikkas invariably get great press, but in the end, if I have good American-made options, I'll go that way.
Marquezj16
New member
I don't feel anymore of a recoil from my Tika .308 than my wife's X-bolt .308.
I don't think you would feel that much of a recoil difference from a few ounces, unless you are recoil sensitive. The extractor on the Tika worked each time over and over. A good design does not have to be beefy. A smooth bolt is a must, especially if you are hunting.
I don't think you would feel that much of a recoil difference from a few ounces, unless you are recoil sensitive. The extractor on the Tika worked each time over and over. A good design does not have to be beefy. A smooth bolt is a must, especially if you are hunting.
Savage 10/110
Savage is the way to go in my book. I'm amazed the army still pays an arm and a leg for hand built 700's when such cheap and effective rifles are available.
They are proven by user after user to be wicked accurate out of the box, more than is really needed for hunting. Barrel swaps, caliber swaps, trigger adjustments call all be performed by the end user. Savage seems to "listen". They have the correct barrel twists, correct configurations, and off the shelf options for almost every rifle need.
I don't own one (my old 1970's bolt action will out last me), but they really make a compelling argument.
Savage is the way to go in my book. I'm amazed the army still pays an arm and a leg for hand built 700's when such cheap and effective rifles are available.
They are proven by user after user to be wicked accurate out of the box, more than is really needed for hunting. Barrel swaps, caliber swaps, trigger adjustments call all be performed by the end user. Savage seems to "listen". They have the correct barrel twists, correct configurations, and off the shelf options for almost every rifle need.
I don't own one (my old 1970's bolt action will out last me), but they really make a compelling argument.
hopeisnotastrategy
New member
Smaug said:
I actually want a synthetic stock with stainless barrel. The "beauty" of wood is not important to me in the least. Great performance and long-term reliability are what I care about.
All I can tell you is that I was in the same boat as you a while back....
I started a thread here on TFL
I ended up buying a Tikka T3 lite in 30-06
my first time out with the gun I was shooting 3/4 inch 3 shoot groups... and never any bigger than 1 inch.
Lately I havent shot it that well, I remounted the scope and moved it forward a bit.... I think I may have clamped it down to tight, I sure hope not. And a couple other things I have changed may be affecting my groups, like ammo and what not. Last time I took it out I dont think I got a single 1 inch group. But I can tell you one thing for sure. It's not the rifles fault.
When I first got it, I shot 20 shots all within an inch, and I swear to that. I think the Tikka is about the best value out there for a hunting rifle. (light weight, ACCURATE, reliable, smooth, durable, awesome trigger, good controlls, afforable) Yup... thats why I bought mine. It's a great rifle. I think Savage is good too. Also very nice triggers and accurate, but I just dont care for the feel of the rifle when compaired to the Tikka.
I started a thread here on TFL
I ended up buying a Tikka T3 lite in 30-06
my first time out with the gun I was shooting 3/4 inch 3 shoot groups... and never any bigger than 1 inch.
Lately I havent shot it that well, I remounted the scope and moved it forward a bit.... I think I may have clamped it down to tight, I sure hope not. And a couple other things I have changed may be affecting my groups, like ammo and what not. Last time I took it out I dont think I got a single 1 inch group. But I can tell you one thing for sure. It's not the rifles fault.
When I first got it, I shot 20 shots all within an inch, and I swear to that. I think the Tikka is about the best value out there for a hunting rifle. (light weight, ACCURATE, reliable, smooth, durable, awesome trigger, good controlls, afforable) Yup... thats why I bought mine. It's a great rifle. I think Savage is good too. Also very nice triggers and accurate, but I just dont care for the feel of the rifle when compaired to the Tikka.
I dont know about the other models but my Tikka T3 Varmint barrel is free floated and the stock has a alloy bedding block. The Accuracy Guarantee on the Tikka is alot better then the Savage. The 1" Accuracy Guarantee with the Tikka is with "ANY" factory ammo (if you use Handloaded or Matchgrade ammo it will shoot alot better again), the Accuracy Guarantee with the Savage will only be with Handloaded or Matchgrade ammo only.
IMHO the barrels on a Tikka are the same as the barrels that are used on the Sako's and I have looked down alot of different brand rifle barrels with a borescope and the Tikka/Sako's have the least machine marks of any factory rifle's which also means they dont foul with copper as much or as quick as some others and that usually means they are alot easier to clean as well.
The Savage AccuTrigger is a great trigger but IMHO it is not as good as the Tikka's trigger (without a doubt the Tikka and Sako have the nicest triggers on any factory gun). Either you cant go wrong with a Savage but IMO I think the Tikka is a little better. Like the others have said the Tikka is the best value rifle on the market (you don't have to change a thing it's all good).
IMHO the barrels on a Tikka are the same as the barrels that are used on the Sako's and I have looked down alot of different brand rifle barrels with a borescope and the Tikka/Sako's have the least machine marks of any factory rifle's which also means they dont foul with copper as much or as quick as some others and that usually means they are alot easier to clean as well.
The Savage AccuTrigger is a great trigger but IMHO it is not as good as the Tikka's trigger (without a doubt the Tikka and Sako have the nicest triggers on any factory gun). Either you cant go wrong with a Savage but IMO I think the Tikka is a little better. Like the others have said the Tikka is the best value rifle on the market (you don't have to change a thing it's all good).