What about neck sizing only

C

cdoc42

New member
What are the pros and cons surrounding neck sizing vs full-length sizing?
I'm referring to using a neck sizing die, not "partial sizing" or just setting the shoulder back 0.002" or so.

I've read a John Wooters text and he said even if one uses a neck sizing die, every 3rd or 4th resizing process one should full length resize or the case may not chamber as expected.

My thought was it eliminates the need to lube the cases, although I still use an appropriate caliber bore mop with dry graphite to lube the mouth.

I thought it might prevent case lengthening, but that didn't happen. My .270 case was 2.530" before sizing and 2.534" afterward. All cases showed an increase between 0.003" and 0.005" and about 10% had to be trimmed. anyway.

Any thoughts?
 
To your question, eliminating lubing the casings. you could probably get away from a full lube, just down to a graphite type neck lube. I just use the hornady 1 shot aerosol, load 50 in a tray, spray from 2 angles, go to town.

If your looking to extend case life and eliminate trimming, which is a much bigger hassle in my book, i would try to find a set of RCBS X series dies. I just ordered a set for my 223. I'm over trimming case necks for over 2000 pieces of brass...

"The patented X-Die eliminates the need for repeated trimming after an initial case trim of .020" off the maximum case length. A specially designed mandrel contacts the case mouth and reduces the growth rate. Because of an extremely close tolerance between the mandrel and die neck wall, the neck wall of the case does not thicken as the case length is pushed back. Cases repeatedly sized in the X-Die will initially grow a few thousandths of an inch, then stabilize below the maximum case length with no discernable loss of accuracy or case life."
 
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Shadow, I have the X-dies for my .22-250 and .270 and I'm probably not using them properly because I have not seen any reduction in case growth.

After reading your post (and probably not closely reading the die directions (!)) I may not have reached that "stablization" point. When I set the die up, use it, fire, and resize I see case growth but I have not watched for it stop at some point.

I contacted RCBS about using the X-die AND setting the shoulder back 0.002." The response was you can't have it both ways with the x-die. Forget shoulder setback with the x-die.
 
Full length sizing proved best for accuracy back in the 1950's.

Case necks are best centered on the case shoulder after sizing. As the case is driven forward into the chamber shoulder before firing, case neck is better centered in the chamber neck, Therefore, so is the bullet in the bore.

I've got 4 dozen reloads per 308 case full length sizing setting the shoulder back 1 to 2 thousandths each time. A friend got 56 reloads on one case that put all shots into one 3/8ths inch group at 100 yards.
 
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I like "This old Gunsmith" advice on FL resizing on Youtube. I also happen to use a Lee Collet neck sizing die. I can't remember where I read the information but one shooter mentioned that he used a Lee collet die and spun the case 2x to size, then seated his bullet, spinning it 3x in the seating process and he had very little or no runout.
 
Personally I see no merit to doing it. Over the years someone always has an improvement. Neck sizing claimed to increase case life among other things. Like many fads it seems to have come and gone. To those who do it more power to you, maybe you see some merit, I never did. I moly coated bullets and while interesting I never saw an improvement in group size. Even with neck sizing only, as mentioned, after so many loadings you are going to need to full length resize anyway. Anyway, been there and done that and have the dies to prove it. :) As mentioned, I never saw any magic and I usually load 223 Remington and 308 Winchester about 5 times and trash the brass so maybe for some there is magic, just not for me.

Ron
 
Reloadron said:
Personally I see no merit to doing it. Over the years someone always has an improvement. Neck sizing claimed to increase case life among other things. Like many fads it seems to have come and gone. To those who do it more power to you, maybe you see some merit, I never did. I moly coated bullets and while interesting I never saw an improvement in group size. Even with neck sizing only, as mentioned, after so many loadings you are going to need to full length resize anyway. Anyway, been there and done that and have the dies to prove it. :) As mentioned, I never saw any magic and I usually load 223 Remington and 308 Winchester about 5 times and trash the brass so maybe for some there is magic, just not for me.

Ron
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so about 5 reloads before annealing is needed, if you want to keep using them?
 
so about 5 reloads before annealing is needed, if you want to keep using them?
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That is what I do. So far its worked. I loose a few to loose primer pockets but you can reduce or stop that by finding a good load lower down.

Also I am conservative with the heat. As long as the finish change polishes off you have not changed it to the wrong end.

I do not get spot on anneal, but I do it every 5 cases and a 80% partial anneal seems to work long term.
 
so about 5 reloads before annealing is needed, if you want to keep using them?
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No, I just trash them after about five times. Most I have done is tinker with annealing. Mostly because I was playing around with induction heating. Several years ago I got a good price from Brass Bombers on WCC 10 brass and I bought about 10,000 cases so I have been working on that plus other brass I had. No denying annealing is a good way to go I just never got into it that much. I miss brass bombers. There was also a forum member here who I think was in PA and I bought brass from him.

Anymore I shoot mostly 223 and 308 with a little 30-06 tossed in but that's about it. My 300 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag days are done. Not getting any younger and the latter began to hurt to shoot.

Anyway, neck sizing is fine I guess but for me I never saw the gain. Still have my 308 Win neck sizer die but don't use it. Like I mentioned, if something works for you then by all means use it.

Ron
 
Erik Cortina on Youtube has several videos talking about it. He is firmly in the full length camp.

In one of the videos he goes down the line at an F Class competition and asks all the shooters. All of them full length size.
 
Shadow9mm asked: "so after the initial trim to .020 below max length, how much have they grown? Are they at or over max case length?"

I can't answer that. Since I couldn't set the shoulder back with the X-die, I just use it as a regular die and continue to set the shoulder back 0.002." The X-die addressed trim reduction but made no mention regarding accuracy influence.

I just neck sized and full-length sized (with shoulder setback) 50 cases each in .270. Now that rifle deer season is over here in PA, I'll check out accuracy results with the only variables being the sizing difference and ......me.....
 
cdoc42 said:
Shadow9mm asked: "so after the initial trim to .020 below max length, how much have they grown? Are they at or over max case length?"

I can't answer that. Since I couldn't set the shoulder back with the X-die, I just use it as a regular die and continue to set the shoulder back 0.002." The X-die addressed trim reduction but made no mention regarding accuracy influence.

I just neck sized and full-length sized (with shoulder setback) 50 cases each in .270. Now that rifle deer season is over here in PA, I'll check out accuracy results with the only variables being the sizing difference and ......me.....
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the RCBS information stated no "discernable loss of accuracy or case life" near the end. I just ordered (backordered) a x-die set for 223. I don't mind trimming, but for bulk cartridges where your doing 1000 instead of 100 its a royal pain. I will have to do some testing as well to see if accuracy drops off with the RCBS dies once I get the dies.
 
You can get good performance from neck-sizing-only, but it depends on a couple of things to do its best. One is that your gun's chamber is coaxial with its bore. If the chamber is even slightly tilted, the brass, except by accident, won't fit uniformly from one chambering to the next, and this moves one of the recoil moments around. The other is that the case center well without wiggle room and that requires not only the on-bore-axis chamber but that the brass be uniform enough to center, so outside neck turning is needed with most cases. I believe this is why the old Lee Manufacturing Zero Error Target Model Lee Loader included a reamer to uniform necks. I shot many a cloverleaf out of my triple deuce loaded using one of those tools.
 
cdoc42 said:
Thanks for the info and advice. Shadow9mm, I'm going to re-visit my X-dies and try again.
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cool, really curious to see if the length does stabilize under max. No telling how long it will take to get my set, but i will post a review when I get them and test the length.

edit 10-16-2020, Looks like they shipped! RCBS 223 small base x-die set! Cant wait to try it out!
 
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The other issue is do you start the process with new brass and only use those in the future? How do you incorporate your already fired brass?
 
The other issue is do you start the process with new brass and only use those in the future? How do you incorporate your already fired brass?
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Easy, just neck size them if you wanna try neck sizing. You can start it on once fired brass or 5x fired brass just the same.

I have gotten good results with neck sizing, but ultimately I ditched it for FL sizing. As uncle nick said, you have to have certain conditions for neck sizing to work well. I’ve had this in at least one rifle.

At the end of the day, after 3 firings, that 4th loafing is going to require some force to close the bolt. Best to FL size after the third firing in my experience, at least with the brass I’ve used. At the end of the day I decided it wasn’t worth the hassle and expense of 2 sizing dies per rifle caliber unless I saw significant benefits. After I learned to set up FL dies properly (I.e. not how Lee dies call for in the instructions), I’ve noticed no accuracy gains from neck sizing.

I have thought of revisiting neck sizing for some milsurp calibers with sloppy chambers. It’s well known that type 99s, k31s, enfield, and others have... well loose chamber tolerances. FL sizing every time in this case can decrease case life significantly, or at a minimum require expert annealing. Neck sizing could mitigate this some or even a whole lot.
 
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