What a way to end the day

Ron, what we are saying is not that pointing someone without justification is legal. What we are saying is that the fact that you were an uninvited stranger at their door IS enough of a threat for them to feel vulnerable and therefore legally justified to hold a firearm on you. Only in the most liberal of states would you find a District Attorney willing to try and charge a homeowner for defending their home.

The fact that YOU think you weren't an imminent threat does not make it so in the homeowner's mind.
 
I hate to sound like a bloodthirsty Wyatt Earp, but the homeowners are justified in proactively protecting themselves while they assisted you. It's lucky they half-believed you, you were given assistance instead of sent on your way.

I've had the same thing happen to me, get stranded on a rural road at night, but you might not have as honest a face as the rest of us.

It's a mean world out there, people are terrified of crime. Blame it on the media, I guess.
 
Every class required to obtain a carry permit should stress the law concerning use of a weapon, and safety, but it's quite obvious that some don't.
I suspect it was taught in the classes, much like spelling and grammar are taught to everyone, but many don't follow the rules.
 
Ron, what we are saying is not that pointing someone without justification is legal. What we are saying is that the fact that you were an uninvited stranger at their door IS enough of a threat for them to feel vulnerable and therefore legally justified to hold a firearm on you. Only in the most liberal of states would you find a District Attorney willing to try and charge a homeowner for defending their home.

The fact that YOU think you weren't an imminent threat does not make it so in the homeowner's mind.
It really doesn't work that way.

Knocking on someone's front door is not a "threat" to a "reasonable person".
Most folks have doorbells especially for such occasions.

At the very worst one would be guilty of trespass (but not really) and that doesn't justify "assault by pointing a gun"
 
Snyper, you are exactly correct and what you said was almost identical to what the trooper I got off of the phone with a few minutes ago said. They broke the law; period. In the state of Va you cannot point a gun at anyone unless you are PHYSICALLY threatened. Just because you feel someone is a threat DOES NOT give you the right to draw a weapon on them, even if you are inside your home. You have to prove ability, intent and opportunity before you can draw a weapon, same as justifiable homicide. I do not know the legal limits of drawing a weapon in other states, but I do know it in mine. I think it is something every person who has a carry permit should know inside and out, because it may save a lot of unnecessary legal hassles, and possibly some jail time.
 
Pointing a gun at you was felony stupid, but you didn't flee, you stayed there and used the phone, which means whatever happened didn't cause you to fear for your life.
 
To the people in this thread who think it's a reasonable response to point a gun at someone simply for standing on your front porch and knocking on your door: You may want to re-assess your ownership of firearms. Your misunderstanding of justified self-defense with a firearm makes all gun owners look bad.
 
I actually didn't feel that threatened. I'm 6'2" tall and weigh about 220. the man holding the gun went maybe 150 and was older, and appeared somewhat frail. He was holding the gun in his right hand which would have been rather easy to deflect. OODA loop worked rather quickly in that instance. He was always slightly less than arms length away. Left hand grab gun hand slam it against the handrail, right elbow slammed against the throat which puts man in between me and woman. Right hand to man's wrist holding gun, severe twist another slam against handrail, toss gun to the ground and run like a scared rabbit. That's what my brain came up with. Of course things seldom go according to plan. I just talked smoothly and evenly, made no sudden moves and always kept my hands visible. The best conflict is one you don't have to go through. I do trust my training and my physical ability, but I really don't want to use force unless I am absolutely forced to.
 
I actually didn't feel that threatened. I'm 6'2" tall and weigh about 220. the man holding the gun went maybe 150 and was older, and appeared somewhat frail. He was holding the gun in his right hand which would have been rather easy to deflect. OODA loop worked rather quickly in that instance. He was always slightly less than arms length away. Left hand grab gun hand slam it against the handrail, right elbow slammed against the throat which puts man in between me and woman. Right hand to man's wrist holding gun, severe twist another slam against handrail, toss gun to the ground and run like a scared rabbit. That's what my brain came up with. Of course things seldom go according to plan. I just talked smoothly and evenly, made no sudden moves and always kept my hands visible. The best conflict is one you don't have to go through. I do trust my training and my physical ability, but I really don't want to use force unless I am absolutely forced to.
So no cell phone, no spare tire, and no concern for a gun pointed at you. I'm seeing a theme here...
 
ronl - It's 2015. No pay phones around any where. Not having a cell phone is not smart.

With regard to having a gun pointed at you. The homeowners shouldn't have done that, but then again push comes to shove, your word against theirs on their property. I'm sure they were more than a little uncomfortable having some stranger in their driveway, ringing their doorbell, & asking to use their phone. Do you have any idea how many bad guys use that exact same scam as a prelude to a home invasion?

Bottom line, nothing happen & you got out of a jam. Be smarter and get yourself a cell phone. It's $10 a month at Consumer Cellular.
 
ronl said:
I actually didn't feel that threatened. I'm 6'2" tall and weigh about 220. the man holding the gun went maybe 150 and was older, and appeared somewhat frail. He was holding the gun in his right hand which would have been rather easy to deflect. OODA loop worked rather quickly in that instance. He was always slightly less than arms length away. Left hand grab gun hand slam it against the handrail, right elbow slammed against the throat which puts man in between me and woman. Right hand to man's wrist holding gun, severe twist another slam against handrail, toss gun to the ground and run like a scared rabbit. That's what my brain came up with. Of course things seldom go according to plan. I just talked smoothly and evenly, made no sudden moves and always kept my hands visible. The best conflict is one you don't have to go through. I do trust my training and my physical ability, but I really don't want to use force unless I am absolutely forced to.

Personally, I understand why the man had his weapon close, as, were I in his situation, I would do the same. I don't think he should have had it in view, but close.

In my experience, having had to rely on the kindness of strangers when I ran out of gas as a teenager, I found that distance helps alleviate tension. I think by staying within arms reach, you may have made yourself more of a threat than you intended, especially with the description you gave. When approaching a door, after knocking, stand back away from the door, leaving 6-10 feet in personal space for the homeowner. Yes, it makes it more difficult for you to engage if needed, but as you are an uninvited guest on their property, and should allow some concessions. Being in the South, as well, Sir and Ma'am also come into play.

Finally, the lady holding the weapon pointed at you is wrong, and most likely illegal. Did you ever ask her to lower the weapon? Sometimes making the request in a calm, even voice can do more to help descalate the situation. Even something as simple as, "Excuse me, ma'am, but if you could please point that gun away from me, I'd greatly appreciate it." Polite, concilatory language can do wonders.

Finally, I strongly reccomend getting a prepaid cell phone (I personally reccomend Tracfone, as their coverage area is pretty robust), and leave it off unless you need it. They aren't that expensive, and pretty reliable (my mother used the same one for 5 years).
 
I'm 6'2" tall and weigh about 220. the man holding the gun went maybe 150 and was older, and appeared somewhat frail.


....and you wonder why the old fart and his wife felt threatened?

Left hand grab gun hand slam it against the handrail, right elbow slammed against the throat which puts man in between me and woman. Right hand to man's wrist holding gun, severe twist another slam against handrail, toss gun to the ground and run like a scared rabbit.


....sounds like Mall Ninja 101.

I run a small construction business, and it keeps me pretty busy. I am not the typical contractor driving around in the fancy truck that spends most of his day riding around and talking on the phone. I am the hands on type and I'm in the trenches pounding nails every day. My customers expect me to do a good job and accomplish it in good time, and I found I could not do that with a cell phone, spending up to and sometimes exceeding an hour a day talking about things not concerning the job I am on.

I too run a similar small construction business. I could not do it without a cell phone. How do current and potential customer get a hold of you during the day. How do you contact suppliers and sub-contractors during the day. If you are spending a hour a day on the phone during the work day involved in non-work issues, you need to reconsider your work ethics.

As to not having a spare, two friends and I were coming home from a day of fishing about a month ago when we came across three young girls with a flat tire. We stopped, got them moved off the main road, and offered to change the tire. It was a brand new car, and it didn't have a spare tire, seems that was optional. It did have a fix-a-flat kit, which didn't do any good as the sidewall was damaged. We did hang around until one of the girl's parents got there

I cannot see where this validate you not having a spare on a work truck...that you use on construction sites. Three young foolish girls don't have a spare and neither do I.

The old folks let you use a phone and helped you out. You could have left as soon as the woman pointed a supposedly loaded gun at you. Too much aloof to this story to make me put much faith in it.
 
Each to their own, but to me the advantages of having a cell phone with me at all times far outweighs any disadvantages and costs. Having a medical emergency, or a car accident, needing to report a crime, etc. alone justify having a phone, let alone being able to communicate with family and friends whether I am home or not. Having a smartphone is like having a personal computer in your pocket, and although I am an oldtimer of 72 I cannot imagine going back to a phoneless situation any more than I would give up my cars and survive with a horse and wagon.

And in truth, if one of my grown kids called me and stated that they were stuck on the road because they left home without a good spare tire, I would help them but certainly give them a hard time for being so foolish and shortsighted. If I were thinking about hiring a security specialist and he showed up at my home and I found out he had neither a phone nor a spare for his truck I would find someone better prepared for life in general to be my contractor.
 
Heck, as far as I know there aren't any phone booths anywhere these days.
Where Keowee Dead ends into Wayne avenue in Dayton Ohio. When i noticed it I seriously considered parking and seeing if it actually worked. Then I realized the neighborhood and time of day. Not worth it.
http://www.payphone-directory.org/ - I had to google it.

Sometimes someone needs to borrow my cell b/c their battery died.

Like the guy that travels without a spare tire and/or a cell phone?
So no cell phone, no spare tire, and no concern for a gun pointed at you. I'm seeing a theme here...
Rough treatment, but maybe not undeserved.
I even keep a plug kit on hand. Not hard to get two flats and I can fix someone else tire if needed.
All that training and you don't know about the 7/10 yard rule? At that range with the gun holstered or even in hand at his side an older guy with presumably delayed reflexes had almost no chance. Approach a house outside the city and expect to be met by someone armed. When I lived on a farm a loaded open double was how anyone driving up the lane unannounced at night was met.
I wouldn't have been able to help myself from asking them what rights a CCW gave them on their own property beyond the rights they would have without it.
 
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kilimanjaro said:
It's a mean world out there, people are terrified of crime. Blame it on the media, I guess.
I prefer to blame it on the bad actors. That's who I'm afraid of, not the media.

As an example of how ugly the world has become, I saw an article on the innerwebz today about a guy who was arrested for offering a teenaged girl a ride. I'm now a senior citizen. When I was in grammar school and elementary school, I occasionally had to walk home after school, a distance of about four or five miles. My parents had issued strict instructions to never accept a ride from a stranger, so I didn't. But if someone stopped and offered me a ride, my first thought wasn't to write down the license plate number and call the cops at the first opportunity.

Once I got my license and started driving, I frequently stopped to help people at the side of the road ... especially women Not any more. I feel like dirt any time I drive by a car stopped with a woman in it or next to it, but I'm simply not willing to open myself up to a phony charge of kidnapping and/or sexual assault. Unfortunately, there's a lot of that happening in my corner of the country, so I don't think I'm being paranoid, just careful.
 
We live in an apartment building surrounded by many others. That notwithstanding, I would hope that my girlfriend left alone would choose to answer the door with a gun in such as a situation should she choose to answer it at all. Pointing it at somebody you're not willing to destroy at that time is a gross violation of safe gun handling and possibly illegal; that said, you were a stranger (who falls on the favorable side of disparity of force) showing up at their house with a story of a flat tire and no cell phone at a time when everybody has one.

To be sure, they didn't have to help you at all, and they were reaching out to help you while trying to maintain their own safety. Your story is a well-known story leading to many assaults.

If you see the utility in carrying a firearm with you (and the money that that entails) I don't see why you don't see the utility in a cheap, basic flip phone that you can keep in your glove box.

Your whole breakdown of the hypothetical situation of how your assault might have gone (called Mall Ninja 101 by another poster) reminded me very much of Sherlock Holmes' analysis of his fight moves in the recent movies - Hollywood magic. I do believe you would have been very much in the wrong to knock on the couples' door, ask to use their phone, and then attack them in the case where you describe not feeling threatened. If not legally, then at least morally.
 
The way I read the OP was . He pulled up to the neighbors house . Then started cases the joint . waited to make sure nobody was home before breaking in . He then must have had some reason not to want that house and came for mine . That's what I observed from my front window officer .

OK maybe not that but do you get my point . The OP did not just walk up and knock on "A" door . He first was casing my neighbors house then mine .

Do you think for a second that couple was not watching him the whole time . I then ask the OP to think back again to every little thing he did next door . Maybe glanced in a window , peak over the fence ??? Like others here that have posted . Do you really think that couple believed you were that last guy in America that does not have a cell phone ???

The OP was acting suspicious and very luck that nice couple let him use the phone . Sure hope he thanked them for being such great people .
 
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phones

I never had a cell, 'till work made me carry one........and it was not near as useful as you might think, 'cause there were not always towers/signals in the areas I was working. I couldn't get out, people couldn't reach me. And it was one more thing to keep up with (check your messages/texts) and I was already plenty busy.

When I retired, I did not get a phone of my own......my wife, conviced that I am going to keel over now at any minute, insists I have one, so now I do...but I rarely turn it on. I recognize their convenience, but I'll use the thing on my terms, which means only when I want/need to.

I've met folks who could not afford cell phone service. Groceries, gas, utilities, some payments,...........for some, there's not much left over.

How'd we ever get by in the days before cell phones? I've knocked on more than one door for help over the years, stuck, broke down,.... it happened, I did what I had to do to solve the problem. I've been met by more than one property owner with a gun in hand over the years too. Usually while I was marking boundary, once while training beagles and there was a mix up about permission (obtained by a companion), another time encountering a landowner who was on the prowl for somebody else ( I was lawfully present, he was in the wrong place) and once by a relative "guarding" a house when I drove up to deliver a consolation gift due to a death in their family.

In all these instances, it seemed more of a show of force or bravado. The thought that those folks actually intended to shoot an alleged trespasser seems a bit farfetched, even for rural Alabama. Not the best mindset or tactics.
 
I would completely support the couple if they had kept the guns hidden. If someone that I felt looked suspicious knocked on my door I would answer the door armed as well, but having a gun trained on the person where they can see it the entire time is taking it too far. In my opinion, that takes it from protecting yourself to trying to scare the person on your porch.

On a side note, every state is different but I suspect that if I pointed a gun at every Jehova's Witness that comes to my door, and there are a lot of them, two things would happen. The first being the Jehova's Witnesses stop showing up and the second being the police paying me a visit.
 
Ok cell phone owners, lets see a virtual show of hands of those who NEVER forgot their cell phone when leaving the house.

The only time I ALWAYs had a cell phone is when it was a car phone. Remember those from the 1990s?

Yes people are definitely more paranoid today than in previous times – thank you CNN.

In the situation described, perhaps a better idea would have been to try to flag a passing motorist while making a cell phone to the head gesture. It is likely the call will be to the cops, but at least AAA or someone will eventually arrive.
 
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