What 8x57 / 8mm Mauser Ammo for K98?

the size of the chamber neck and the room to expand and release the bullet is a lot bigger safety factor

This is the key. People have been known to jam a .30-06 round into a .270 chamber and fire it without blowing up the gun. Pressure did go way up, naturally.

some years back I remember reading how one of the old time smiths (Ackley I think, but can't remember for certain) got interested in this kind of thing, and made a .270 barrel with enough chamber neck clearance to fire an 06. Turned out that squeezing a .30 bullet down the .27 bore really didn't raise the pressure much, IF there was enough clearance to allow the case to release the bullet normally.

It is possible 98s were rebarreled, not reamed, its also possible guns were reamed and not marked, or perhaps there was a shop mark that we simply don't know how to recognize, that indicates the rifle was converted. It might have been a standard, or it might have been something individual to each shop doing the work. In those days of cheap (compared to today) skilled labor costs, it would make sense that a reaming was cheaper than a rebarrel.

It's also possible that the guns weren't converted by the cheapest possible means, and were rebarreled instead. And remember that the conversion was a one time thing, and all the new rifles, and barrels were made with the new bore size.

Shooting the oversize bullet in a .318" bore probably meant less than match grade accuracy, but that kind of accuracy wasn't what the German Army needed those rifles to do. I believe all the converted rifles were intended for second line and rear area troops, guards, border police, etc.

(where any specific one ended up is, of course a more complicated matter)
 
And the P-38 solved the problem in another way.

The P39 Air Cobra was a little different also, that was the plane with Hudson type car doors and the engine behind the pilot. To turn the prop they ran a drive shave forward to a gear system with a hollow center. The Russians loved the cannon that fired through the center of the hub. The ME109 was not a direct drive propeller, the center firing cannon on the 109 did not fire through the propeller, it fired through the hub.

And then there was the P39 counter rotating propeller with two drive shafts.

F. Guffey
 
The ME109 was not a direct drive propeller, the center firing cannon on the 109 did not fire through the propeller

No, but the cowl guns (7.92mm, later 13mm) DID fire through the propeller blades arc, just as did the cowl guns on the P-39, P-40, and "chin" guns on the early A-36 (ground attack version P-51), and many other aircraft from different nations.

Interruptor gear basically "stops pulling the trigger" at just the right time to allow the propeller to pass in front of the muzzle without getting hit by a bullet, and starts pulling the trigger again when the blade passes.

A hangfire, of just the right duration COULD result in the propeller being hit, so reliable, CONSISTANT ignition was an important factor in the ammo, unlike ground guns, and guns that don't fire through a propeller arc, where a fraction of a second delay is no big deal.
 
The ME109 was not a direct drive propeller, the center firing cannon on the 109 did not fire through the propeller

And then the Germans installed the 109 engine upside down, and I have wondered if anyone ever thought about how difficult it would be to open the doors on a Hudson at 200 MPH

F. Guffey
 
This is the key. People have been known to jam a .30-06 round into a .270 chamber and fire it without blowing up the gun. Pressure did go way up, naturally.

Oh gawd!

I knew some ninny who tried to either put 3.5" shells in a 3" 12 gauge or 3" shells in 2.75" 12 gauge.
 
That PPU stuff is weak. Full power loads are expensive, whether factory new (I forget the company(s) that make it) or surplus.

Bummer that surplus 8mm Mauser ammo is no longer cheap.
 
On the 88/98 rifle question, I believe that the 98's, which by 1905 had been in service only a few years, were re-barreled, since new barrels were being made at the time and the new rifles would have a long life expectancy. There was plenty of the old ammo in inventory to allow use of the 88 by the reserves for a long time. It was only later, in the press of wartime need, that the 88's were converted, and then most of them seem to have gone to foreign countries, mainly Turkey.

Jim
 
None of the pre-Spitzer rifles were rebarreled. The only change was the cut-out for the longer rounds in the 88s and a longer lead in the early 98s.
 
None of the pre-Spitzer rifles were rebarreled. The only change was the cut-out for the longer rounds in the 88s and a longer lead in the early 98s.

I could say something like; "What do I know?" but there was a collector/shooter/ going to be a reloader that got sideways with smiths in the Huntsville area of Alabama. He wanted to check the length of the chambers in all of his Mouser rifles. His collection included Commission rifles and rifles made after 1906. Smiths insisted one of the gages did not exist and it was impossible to check all of the rifles with one gage.

Long story short I could not convince him all of the chamber lengths could be checked with one gage so I made him one set of gages that would check all of the length from the shoulder to the bolt face. He removed three rifles from his collection as shooters because he found the chambers were at least .018" longer than a minimum length/full length sized case from the shoulder to the bolt face and he was impressed with the number of rifles he had that were .005" shorter than a go gage length chamber when measured from the shoulder to the bolt face.

F. Guffey
 
The Gewehr 88 (commonly called the Model 1888 commission rifle) were commonly available in Florida The early 1970s.
A lot of department stores had them in barrels for 30.00.
I owned one as did several of my young friends.
With Remington or other American made "8mm Mauser" rounds --
The cases would split almost every time.
We all dumped them.
There were many other 8mm variants also available for 30.00 in a barrel that were chambered for the newer 8mm round. Mostly WW1 era rifles.
 
F. Guffey, how many of the shooter rifles were actually numbers matching? German rifles were hand fitted, so bolt face/shoulder distance would be off if not matching.
I don't understand the gage issue as M88, 7.92S and 7.92sS all have the same gage dimensions.
 
F. Guffey, how many of the shooter rifles were actually numbers matching? German rifles were hand fitted, so bolt face/shoulder distance would be off if not matching.

If only I had the luxury of disagreeing but I did purchase 4 Mausers that were sold as suspect. SO! and then ? I took the rifles apart and measured the receivers and bolts; I then took one barrel and screwed it into one of the receivers. The chamber on the one barrel was a wildcat and then I selected one bolt to test all four receivers. The case head protrusion from the one barrel was .110". After assemble and testing I did not have more than .001" difference in length between the chambers.

I have 35 03 bolts, I have measured the effect each one has on the length of the chamber. I do not have an 03 bolt that will change the length of the chamber .001". I have as many Mauser bolts, the Internet smiths have a cute saying when purchasing bolts for Mausers, they suggest purchasing bolts by the bucket to increase the chances of finding a bolt that will correct the length of the chamber.

Back to the collector and his collection; I sent him gages that were for short chambers, I sent him gages for long chambers, the longest gages was .024" longer than a minimum length/full length sized case meaning had he chambered a full length sized case in the chamber and then pulled the trigger he would have started with .024" clearance and NO! there was no guarantee the case would have suffered case head separation and that brings up the other silly saying. Reloaders claim the firing pin drives the case forward to the shoulder of the chamber and I always ask how can that be? If the shoulder of the case is driven to the shoulder of the chamber etc. etc. and then it gets too complicated to keep up with.

F. Guffey
 
I don't understand the gage issue as M88, 7.92S and 7.92sS all have the same gage dimensions.

The collector/shooter ask for help, he offered to load up his collection and haul it to a smith within 100 miles if they agree to check both chambers. Gage issue? It was not my intention to overload him with information, I did offer to make him a gage that would help him sort modified chambers. I did offer to form cases for his long chambers; that was more information and help than he asked for.

The collector/shooter ask for help,
When it came to help there was me and nobody. And the cute part was the 'no-help' was on a gun forum, there were all of those smiths and then there was me.

F. Guffey
 
I gave him a choice, I told him I had 35 8mm57 Mausers that I checked with just one gage. There is Steve's Page 8, SAAMI, Lee's Modern Reloading etc. for resource.

He liked the ideal of having 26 options, if he choose to have me form cases for his long chambers all he had to do was give me the number on the gage.

F. Guffey
 
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