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What .30-06 projectile/powder for 1,000 yards?
- Thread starter Rangerrich99
- Start date
"Good enough for Carlos Hathcock. "
He didn't have other options. He used what was issued and made the best of it.
I didn't have to deal with the M70 (30/06) with the pesky precision scope mount and scope.(neither of which was EVER meant for field use BTW)
The M40(Rem 700) with the constantly warping wood stock was bad enough but at least the scope was watertight and mostly fog proof. Although not as good at long range, the 3-9 was an improvement for general use or if shorter ranges required less than 10X.
For the OP: use 175-190 grain bullets pushed as fast as the rifle will handle at an accuracy level capable of still hitting your expected target. That's what you need but how you get there is on you.
He didn't have other options. He used what was issued and made the best of it.
I didn't have to deal with the M70 (30/06) with the pesky precision scope mount and scope.(neither of which was EVER meant for field use BTW)
The M40(Rem 700) with the constantly warping wood stock was bad enough but at least the scope was watertight and mostly fog proof. Although not as good at long range, the 3-9 was an improvement for general use or if shorter ranges required less than 10X.
For the OP: use 175-190 grain bullets pushed as fast as the rifle will handle at an accuracy level capable of still hitting your expected target. That's what you need but how you get there is on you.
Under no circumstances use the 168-grain MatchKing or its copies by other makers.
Does that include the Nosler CC?
I've got a Savage 10T with a 24" heavy barrel, I'm working my way out to 1000yds with... I've been using the SMK or the Nosler with IMR4064. I've considered going up to the 175's but have a goodly stash of the 168's. If it's really an issue, I guess I'd better change now...
Quote:
Under no circumstances use the 168-grain MatchKing or its copies by other makers.
Don't know how the boattail is constructed on the Nosler, but I wouldn't use that light of a bullet for the following reason. The advantage of the '06 is it's large case capacity. Why not make use of it with lot's of a slow burn rate powder behind a high BC heavy bullet?
Don
Under no circumstances use the 168-grain MatchKing or its copies by other makers.
Does that include the Nosler CC?
Don't know how the boattail is constructed on the Nosler, but I wouldn't use that light of a bullet for the following reason. The advantage of the '06 is it's large case capacity. Why not make use of it with lot's of a slow burn rate powder behind a high BC heavy bullet?
Don
The advantage of the '06 is it's large case capacity.
In my 'case' it's .308, not .30-06 like the OP... but the net result should be the same. I do agree with using that big '06 case to it's fullest, however.
At our local range, we have to qualify to use the 1,000 range. You get a pin that says where you can shoot from.
TL;DR
-----
175 to 180gr bullets
Taller scope mounts
Better butt stock or shoulder pad.
-----
So, I went to qualify one day and was using:
Ruger M77 MkII in 30-06
Basic Leupold scope (sorry I don't recall which one)
Core Lokt 160 bullets (Remington?)
A beat up shoulder from trying to zero it all in at 300 yards the previous day!
I originally intended to shoot prone from the ground using a bag rest but when I arrived at the range, some VERY generous people loaned me a bench so I was able to put the bag on the bench.
I zeroed at 300 yards and got what I thought were good groups and all shots in the black. Easy.
Then I moved to 600 yards. I had calculated the scope adjustment to 8 clicks up but a guy at the range, again, very generously, had a Palm pilot ballistics program with my ammo in it and he advised I crank it to 9.75 clicks up which I did. That put me spot on dead center with the first shot! Pure luck, in my mind. The rest of the group was very good and the gentlemen helping me commented on how well I had done. I was too naive to really know but they liked it. All shots in the black. I wish I could remember the group size.
I had to stop after that so I'm only allowed to use the range at 600 yards.
My reasons for stopping were:
Dead shoulder from shooting about 40 rounds in two days.
The other people at the range advised that I should use 180gr bullets to go to any longer distance
My scope mount wouldn't crank up enough to see the target.
Bottom line:
175 to 180gr bullets
Taller scope mounts
Better butt stock or shoulder pad.
--Wag--
TL;DR
-----
175 to 180gr bullets
Taller scope mounts
Better butt stock or shoulder pad.
-----
So, I went to qualify one day and was using:
Ruger M77 MkII in 30-06
Basic Leupold scope (sorry I don't recall which one)
Core Lokt 160 bullets (Remington?)
A beat up shoulder from trying to zero it all in at 300 yards the previous day!
I originally intended to shoot prone from the ground using a bag rest but when I arrived at the range, some VERY generous people loaned me a bench so I was able to put the bag on the bench.
I zeroed at 300 yards and got what I thought were good groups and all shots in the black. Easy.
Then I moved to 600 yards. I had calculated the scope adjustment to 8 clicks up but a guy at the range, again, very generously, had a Palm pilot ballistics program with my ammo in it and he advised I crank it to 9.75 clicks up which I did. That put me spot on dead center with the first shot! Pure luck, in my mind. The rest of the group was very good and the gentlemen helping me commented on how well I had done. I was too naive to really know but they liked it. All shots in the black. I wish I could remember the group size.
I had to stop after that so I'm only allowed to use the range at 600 yards.
My reasons for stopping were:
Dead shoulder from shooting about 40 rounds in two days.
The other people at the range advised that I should use 180gr bullets to go to any longer distance
My scope mount wouldn't crank up enough to see the target.
Bottom line:
175 to 180gr bullets
Taller scope mounts
Better butt stock or shoulder pad.
--Wag--
Wag,
I don't exactly know what you are referring to when you say "My scope mount wouldn't crank up enough to see the target". I believe what you are saying is you don't have enough elevation adjustment in your scope to enable you to reach 1,000 yards. What you need to do is get a scope base with a 20 MOA slope built into it. This will enable you to use less elevation adjustment to reach out to 1,000 yards.
Don
I don't exactly know what you are referring to when you say "My scope mount wouldn't crank up enough to see the target". I believe what you are saying is you don't have enough elevation adjustment in your scope to enable you to reach 1,000 yards. What you need to do is get a scope base with a 20 MOA slope built into it. This will enable you to use less elevation adjustment to reach out to 1,000 yards.
Don
Rangerrich99
New member
delete, double post.
Rangerrich99
New member
So after looking at my projected available free time over the next 7 weeks, I've decided that my first move here is to try some factory match-grade ammo, if I can find any. I've had a bit of a difficult time even finding any .30-06 match-grade bullets. Most of the places I've looked both locally and online only have hunting cartridges it seems. Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction.
On yet another side note, the idea that I might not have enough elevation adjustment had me checking my scope, which has 65 MOA of elevation adjustment, according to the Vortex website. Any idea if that's enough?
On yet another side note, the idea that I might not have enough elevation adjustment had me checking my scope, which has 65 MOA of elevation adjustment, according to the Vortex website. Any idea if that's enough?
So after looking at my projected available free time over the next 7 weeks, I've decided that my first move here is to try some factory match-grade ammo, if I can find any. I've had a bit of a difficult time even finding any .30-06 match-grade bullets. Most of the places I've looked both locally and online only have hunting cartridges it seems. Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction.
Good luck finding suitable factory ammo for 1,000 target shooting. The only '06 match ammo that I am aware of is the Federal Gold Medal Match ammo with a 168gr SMK bullet. As I previously stated, this bullet is totally unsuitable for long range (beyond 600 yards) shooting.
On yet another side note, the idea that I might not have enough elevation adjustment had me checking my scope, which has 65 MOA of elevation adjustment, according to the Vortex website. Any idea if that's enough?
That will not be enough. With my 190SMK load at 2900fps, I required 30.5 MOA more of elevation from my 100 yard zero. With 65 MOA of total adjustment, that only gives you 32.5 MOA of adjustment IF YOU ARE LUCKY AND ARE IN THE MIDDLE AT 100 YARDS. Almost to a man, everybody shooting in 1,000 yard competition uses a base with built in slope so that less scope adjustment is necessary to reach 1k. So, to summarize: the .30-06 for 1,000 yard shooting is a reloading proposition, and a scope base with a 20 MOA slope is required. Hope that helps.
Don
Rangerrich99
New member
Well, there's this stuff: http://www.snipercentral.com/product/hsm-30-06-sprg-190gr-hpbt-match/Good luck finding suitable factory ammo for 1,000 target shooting. The only '06 match ammo that I am aware of is the Federal Gold Medal Match ammo with a 168gr SMK bullet. As I previously stated, this bullet is totally unsuitable for long range (beyond 600 yards) shooting.
That will not be enough. With my 190SMK load at 2900fps, I required 30.5 MOA more of elevation from my 100 yard zero. With 65 MOA of total adjustment, that only gives you 32.5 MOA of adjustment IF YOU ARE LUCKY AND ARE IN THE MIDDLE AT 100 YARDS. Almost to a man, everybody shooting in 1,000 yard competition uses a base with built in slope so that less scope adjustment is necessary to reach 1k. So, to summarize: the .30-06 for 1,000 yard shooting is a reloading proposition, and a scope base with a 20 MOA slope is required. Hope that helps.
Don
They also seem to have some 178 grain match.
I've been asking around and it seems I do have to get a new base for my scope. Thanks for the info so far guys.
All of my high powder precision scopes end up in the lower 1/3 of the elevation adjustment range at 100 yds . A few of my premium scopes "could" reach 1K without a 20 moa rail by my turret tests but it's too close for comfort. I always fit my 15 moa rail when i'm going to shoot 1K.
I have one scope that I have never needed to shim or use a base to add elevation (It's a Bushnell Elite) so there are exceptions to the rule. I've used that scope on two rifles, same results (one of them being a .308 so I'm not exactly shooting laser bullets). I'm fairly confident I could get to 1,200 yards before I needed to shim the scope or use a 20moa base.
Another question, now that we're discussing matters. Do most civilian shooters still use MOA adjustments for their common corrections, calls, and adjustments? I understand many scopes still adjust by MOA, which is a pain to fully convert to mils (although I've found 1/2moa is pretty darn close to 1/8mil, it works well enough until you get past 600 yards). I'm from a military background, and so is my long distance shooting. I measure everything except groups in Mils. I'm just wondering what others here do.
Another question, now that we're discussing matters. Do most civilian shooters still use MOA adjustments for their common corrections, calls, and adjustments? I understand many scopes still adjust by MOA, which is a pain to fully convert to mils (although I've found 1/2moa is pretty darn close to 1/8mil, it works well enough until you get past 600 yards). I'm from a military background, and so is my long distance shooting. I measure everything except groups in Mils. I'm just wondering what others here do.
Wag,
I don't exactly know what you are referring to when you say "My scope mount wouldn't crank up enough to see the target". I believe what you are saying is you don't have enough elevation adjustment in your scope to enable you to reach 1,000 yards. What you need to do is get a scope base with a 20 MOA slope built into it. This will enable you to use less elevation adjustment to reach out to 1,000 yards.
Don
Yes, exactly. It's been a while and I still haven't taken the time to get the higher scope mounts and get back out there to requal.
--Wag--
It's been a while and I still haven't taken the time to get the higher scope mounts and get back out there to requal.
Wag,
You don't want higher scope mounts. You want a 20 MOA base, which is not higher than other bases.
Don
Wag,
You don't want higher scope mounts. You want a 20 MOA base, which is not higher than other bases.
Don
That makes more sense. One of these days, I'll get it done!
--Wag--
Rangerrich99
New member
Just a quick update:
Put together my first test ladder and sent them downrange today (sorry no pics).
For this ladder, I used Lapua brass, Sierra Matchkings 190 grains BTHP, over H4350 up to 56.6 grains. All rounds fired, all primers showed no signs of overpressure, cratering, etc. All brass likewise showed no signs of overpressure.
At 100 yards, the best group was with the 56.6 grains of H4350, almost a cloverleaf 3-shot group just over 0.5 inches (0.568). 2nd best group was 56.2 grains just over 0.75 inches (0.788 inches center-to-centers). Of course, 3-shot groups are barely indicative of anything, but I can hope something in there turns out to be the magic pill recipe.
Next step of course is to put together another test ladder, put the Viper scope on the rifle, and lighten the trigger pull on the Accu-Trigger a bit. Oh, and get a shoulder recoil pad; my shoulder was starting to feel like it was getting mushed towards the end there.
Put together my first test ladder and sent them downrange today (sorry no pics).
For this ladder, I used Lapua brass, Sierra Matchkings 190 grains BTHP, over H4350 up to 56.6 grains. All rounds fired, all primers showed no signs of overpressure, cratering, etc. All brass likewise showed no signs of overpressure.
At 100 yards, the best group was with the 56.6 grains of H4350, almost a cloverleaf 3-shot group just over 0.5 inches (0.568). 2nd best group was 56.2 grains just over 0.75 inches (0.788 inches center-to-centers). Of course, 3-shot groups are barely indicative of anything, but I can hope something in there turns out to be the magic pill recipe.
Next step of course is to put together another test ladder, put the Viper scope on the rifle, and lighten the trigger pull on the Accu-Trigger a bit. Oh, and get a shoulder recoil pad; my shoulder was starting to feel like it was getting mushed towards the end there.
never shot 30-06 but for a .308 the 155.5 grain Berger shoots extremely well. Using that bullet then whatever powder that can safely get you at least 2950 fps out the door and gives you low SD and low ES. A 50 FPS ES can affect the bullet by a foot or more. Measure your powder as close as you can
You would be well off to get a after market spring for the Acu trigger as yours will be Acu Hunt weight (2.5 lobs minimum) and the spring will let you adjust down to 1.5 (ala Acu Varmint)
I thought at one time 2.5 lbs is fine but target shooting no. I would prefer a bit lighter yet but have to aftermarket of finagle a Acu Target (about 1/2 lb)
Long term a Shilen barrel would be grand, 26 inch for 1000 yards. Criterion is also considered equal but I have not had one. Shilen is rock solid
I am in love with 30-06, grew up with it and to date the overall capability in a huge range has never been surpassed (my opinion of course). Lots will do parts as good o better but none do as good (The 8mm was also a good one and I lament the lack of 7.5 Swiss development or spread as its an amazing cartridge)
I thought at one time 2.5 lbs is fine but target shooting no. I would prefer a bit lighter yet but have to aftermarket of finagle a Acu Target (about 1/2 lb)
Long term a Shilen barrel would be grand, 26 inch for 1000 yards. Criterion is also considered equal but I have not had one. Shilen is rock solid
I am in love with 30-06, grew up with it and to date the overall capability in a huge range has never been surpassed (my opinion of course). Lots will do parts as good o better but none do as good (The 8mm was also a good one and I lament the lack of 7.5 Swiss development or spread as its an amazing cartridge)