So I have the opportunity to get a Sig Sauer P226 and I am told by the current owner it is a West German manufactured ones and I ask a couple close buddies and they sound to be all the rave in the Sig world! Please do explain, what is the significance of a German built Sig?! I have been into guns for a number of years now and honestly am just now really getting into handguns. I just got a no dash model 66 that I am in love with and feel I need to add a Semi to the collection and although I have experience with NUMEROUS handguns, I have always loved the 226/229
West German manufactured Sig?
- Thread starter rcase1234
- Start date
Torch said:
I will also add, if you are interested in the gun from a collector's standpoint, there is something to be said for having a gun that lists it's country of manufacture as a country that no longer exists. I felt that was about my old CZ 82, since it was made in Czechoslovakia, which is now Czech Republic. A West German gun would hold a similar allure to me.
Torch said:
This is simply not true. Older W German and German Sigs are sought out because they were in general better built guns made out of better materials. If you have not seen a change in Sig quality over the years you have not been looking at Sig long enough IMHO. The older W German guns stuck closer to the original design. They used carbon steel slides and no MIM. There is a balance and weight difference between a W German P226 and a current production one.
One example of the changes in quality in Sig manufacturing is MIM parts. There is good MIM and there is bad MIM. Sig when they first went to MIM parts used poor MIM. They used MIM parts where they had no business being. They had issues. Guys like Bruce Gray at that time recommend replacement of some of these parts for hard duty use guns. For the avg shooter who shoots less than 1000 rounds a year not so much. These days the MIM is much better and does not require replacement. So MIM is a perfect example where Sig went from an tried and true W German part to a crappy MIM part sourced to the lowest bidder, Sig does not make MIM parts in house, to better MIM. Clear change in quality.
Another great example is the P220. It used to have an internal extractor. Sig went to a milled stainless steel slide produced in the US. The weight of the slide changed and Sig tweaked the extractor but did not redesign. As a result early Sig P220ST have extractor issues. Early Nitroned Stainless steel P220s do as well. There is a period of production of P220s I would not touch with your 10 ft pole. Again I will sight Bruce Gray who developed aftermarket extractor to correct the known problem with the US made Sigs. Sig never admitted there was a problem but after a short time with the internal extractor they switched to and external one which after teething issues ran fine.
Then there is the area where some Sigs ship with no finish on the inside of the slide because of they way they hang them when they apply the nitro finish.
I could go on and on. It is not to say every old Sig was perfect or that new Sigs are junk but there have been changes. Many of those changes effected function and quality of the guns being made. It is more than just collector value. IMHO YMMV
I'll agree with the Sig cost cutting measures from what I've seen. My P239 slide is not finished as well as something that costs $750+. It's a small issue that for sure, but something I was not expecting to see on the first cleaning. I've bought guns at the $400 range that outshine Sig in terms of finish. But FWIW, the P239 is still probably my favorite gun that I have owned.
I agree completely with WVsig. I have several of the older W German and German made Sigs and prefer them because of their superior balance due to the folded steel slides. They just feel better in the hand and the lighter weight adds to the comfort factor when carrying them. Handle both side by side and you will notice a significant difference. I can't comment on the quality of the newer guns. I've only owned one, a Stainless Steel P220, that I sold shortly after buying it. It was just too heavy and bulky for my needs. There was also a problem with the external extractors on some of those guns. On the other hand, I've never had a quality-related problem with any of my German made guns. Compare them and make your own choice.
Given the choice between a Sig of west German manufacturer or one of the current offerings I would take the west German gun every time. My last West German 220 had plenty of rounds on it when I got it, but still wanted to shoot like a tuned pistol.
http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/the-sig-p220-45-auto/
http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/the-sig-p220-45-auto/
Funny thing is most people who think they have a German made Sig when in fact they actually have a Sig made in Exeter NH. All the sheet steal slides say made in Germany, or W Germany, that only means the slide was made in there.
For 10 years of so Sig was making the classic Sigs here in the states with some parts sent over including the slides. Sig never made any of the folded slides here in the states. If the slide says made in Germany in means nothing about where the pistol was made. If, and only if, your Sig has proof marks and a date code is the only sure way to know a Sig was truly made in Germany.
For 10 years of so Sig was making the classic Sigs here in the states with some parts sent over including the slides. Sig never made any of the folded slides here in the states. If the slide says made in Germany in means nothing about where the pistol was made. If, and only if, your Sig has proof marks and a date code is the only sure way to know a Sig was truly made in Germany.
I have a West German 226 and I don't see huge differences between the newer 226's. I have a folded slide on mine which does was replaced with a SS slide on the newer ones. I think the mud grooves where German manufacturer.
Parts interchange from current models to the old West German guns with no fit issues at all.
Parts interchange from current models to the old West German guns with no fit issues at all.
I like my West German Police surplus P225 that I paid $319.00 for, better than the new P225-A1 with an MSRP of $1,122.00. And the new A1 mags are not compatible with the older P225! On the other hand I shoot my P228 alongside my M11-A1 and I like the way they both shoot for me!
WG SIGs have very good reputations because they maintained their quality evidently without a let down. The American SIGs had a period in the 90s that quality suffered and so did CS. Generally, now, they are excellent. Solid slides ARE more durable and less prone to problems if manufactured right. The American triggers are generally better these days from what I see. I passed up a cherry WG 228 2 years ago because the DA felt like 25 LBs. My current SP 2022 has a DA much better than my decent WG 226. But a modern SIG that is made in the states IS a good gun. Find a nice WG - get it.