"We're ATF. We can do anything we want to do!"
- Thread starter John/az2
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brianidaho
New member
John, can you post the name of the gunshop here, and would the owner be willing to post his name and a statement on this board? I've got some pretty Pro-gun senators and reps in this state that are noted for taking on the DC powergrabbers (EPA in particular). I'd like the opportunity to forward particulars to them.
If the shop owner doesn't want his name here, want to e-mail me?
Bri
If the shop owner doesn't want his name here, want to e-mail me?
Bri
Bladerunner
Inactive
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brianidaho:
can anyone say unintended consequences.....[/quote]
Would be nice, but he can win without getting to extreme. Had a problem with the FBI, Sheriff Swat team, and BATF in 94. They tried to take all my weapons even though they had no warrant for my arrest, and they were not on their search warrant. Some friends and I physically stopped them. We did get in a tussle where two of them were tossed 12 feet down to the ground. They did want to retaliate, but more people outside and a few video cameras stopped them cold. Still have all my guns without firing a shot and no charges filed…J. I found them to be like cockroaches. Turn the lights on them and they run back to the holes they crawled out of. Just have to make sure you are in the right. If you are no amount of resistance is too much.
Where is he located? Local to me? I can defiantly help someone within my state.
can anyone say unintended consequences.....[/quote]
Would be nice, but he can win without getting to extreme. Had a problem with the FBI, Sheriff Swat team, and BATF in 94. They tried to take all my weapons even though they had no warrant for my arrest, and they were not on their search warrant. Some friends and I physically stopped them. We did get in a tussle where two of them were tossed 12 feet down to the ground. They did want to retaliate, but more people outside and a few video cameras stopped them cold. Still have all my guns without firing a shot and no charges filed…J. I found them to be like cockroaches. Turn the lights on them and they run back to the holes they crawled out of. Just have to make sure you are in the right. If you are no amount of resistance is too much.
Where is he located? Local to me? I can defiantly help someone within my state.
paratrooper
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Irwin:
He needs to immediately get in touch with his elected officials in Washington, IF they are gun friendly. [/quote]
This is the type of sentence that upsets me . Not the words but the sad state of affairs that they point to . " Gun Friendly " ? The people in Washington should be " Law Friendly " regardless of the situation . If a rapist gets off on a legal technicality is the judge " rapist friendly ?" . If a child molester gets off on a technicality is the D.A. " child molester " friendly . Definitely not . They are following the law and there should be no room for " slanting " .
If someone broke the law and violated this man's civil rights they must be held accountable . If a politician must be friendly to a cause in order for justice to be upheld then they are missing the point of having laws . Since all these people take an oath to uphold the Constitution they are legally obligated to respond to reports of abuse . It may take a " rock your socks " law suit to make it happen but I would love to see one filed .
How about Mesa P.D. as accessory before the fact ? It's a start .
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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
He needs to immediately get in touch with his elected officials in Washington, IF they are gun friendly. [/quote]
This is the type of sentence that upsets me . Not the words but the sad state of affairs that they point to . " Gun Friendly " ? The people in Washington should be " Law Friendly " regardless of the situation . If a rapist gets off on a legal technicality is the judge " rapist friendly ?" . If a child molester gets off on a technicality is the D.A. " child molester " friendly . Definitely not . They are following the law and there should be no room for " slanting " .
If someone broke the law and violated this man's civil rights they must be held accountable . If a politician must be friendly to a cause in order for justice to be upheld then they are missing the point of having laws . Since all these people take an oath to uphold the Constitution they are legally obligated to respond to reports of abuse . It may take a " rock your socks " law suit to make it happen but I would love to see one filed .
How about Mesa P.D. as accessory before the fact ? It's a start .
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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
I apologize for the renaming of the shop owner. He's skittish about making this publicly known, but, damn it! It needs to be known.
Here's the info for his place. Give him a call and encourage him in this fight. Maybe even ask him if you can order something from him. He has no inventory (when I last spoke to him) the ATF has it, but he still might be able to do something for you.
I already purchased something from him that fortunately came in the day after the raid.
Jerry's Guns and Ammo (Specialty Firearms)
1055 North Mesa Drive
Mesa, Arizona 85201
480-962-0913
Thanks.
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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.COM & www.handguncontrol.NET are being sued by Handgun Control, Inc.!
See the "cease and desist" letter here: www.cphv.com/lawsuit.html
[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited October 29, 2000).]
Here's the info for his place. Give him a call and encourage him in this fight. Maybe even ask him if you can order something from him. He has no inventory (when I last spoke to him) the ATF has it, but he still might be able to do something for you.
I already purchased something from him that fortunately came in the day after the raid.
Jerry's Guns and Ammo (Specialty Firearms)
1055 North Mesa Drive
Mesa, Arizona 85201
480-962-0913
Thanks.
------------------
John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.COM & www.handguncontrol.NET are being sued by Handgun Control, Inc.!
See the "cease and desist" letter here: www.cphv.com/lawsuit.html
[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited October 29, 2000).]
Travis McGee
New member
Some day, I don't know when, there will be CONSEQUENCES for nazi jack boot thug behavior!!
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/080900/met_3752813.html
Story last updated at 11:53 p.m. on Tuesday, August 8, 2000
Gun dealers face federal charges
Background checks skirted, police say
By Jim Schoettler
Times-Union staff writer
Five Jacksonville gun dealers were arrested yesterday after being accused of selling guns without
asking for information needed to ensure the buyers weren't convicted felons or otherwise not
eligible.
The men, three of whom own local gun shops, are accused of breaking federal law by selling 31
guns in a "straw purchase" scheme. A straw purchase occurs when the gun buyer uses someone
else to fill out a federal firearms transaction form because he may be prohibited from buying the
weapon, said U.S. Attorney Donna Bucella.
Authorities said the seven-month investigation involved undercover purchases by two men who
went into gun dealerships, bought firearms and indicated that someone else would fill out the
paperwork. Such information as the name, age and place of residence of the two men wasn't
recorded by the people who sold the weapons, court records said.
Those arrested were: Wayne Miller, 55, owner of Southside Guns II; Jim Rose, 63, owner of Cassat
Gun; Jim Webb, 62, owner of American Gold Exchange; Abe Farhat, 39, employee of Green Acres
Sporting Goods; and Harvey Branch, 62, an employee of Fox Jewelry & Loan.
Webb was charged with three counts of violating federal firearms laws, while the others were
charged with four counts. Each count carries a maximum of five years in prison and $250,000 fine
if convicted. The men were released on $10,000 bond.
Ralph C. Ostrowski, special agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, said
the arrests should send a message that federally licensed gun dealers need to obey the law. He said
there are about 3,100 such dealers in Florida.
"A federally licensed gun dealer's access to large numbers of firearms makes them a particular
threat to public safety when they fail to comply with the law," Ostrowski said.
None of the gun dealers could be reached to comment. But Jacksonville attorney Hank Coxe, who
is representing Miller, said he was surprised by the arrests.
"I find it absolutely intriguing that all of a sudden five very reputable businessmen in this
community can all suddenly be accused of committing crimes," Coxe said. "I find that impossible
to believe."
The Jacksonville Sheriff's Office and State Attorney's Office assisted in the investigation.
Story last updated at 11:53 p.m. on Tuesday, August 8, 2000
Gun dealers face federal charges
Background checks skirted, police say
By Jim Schoettler
Times-Union staff writer
Five Jacksonville gun dealers were arrested yesterday after being accused of selling guns without
asking for information needed to ensure the buyers weren't convicted felons or otherwise not
eligible.
The men, three of whom own local gun shops, are accused of breaking federal law by selling 31
guns in a "straw purchase" scheme. A straw purchase occurs when the gun buyer uses someone
else to fill out a federal firearms transaction form because he may be prohibited from buying the
weapon, said U.S. Attorney Donna Bucella.
Authorities said the seven-month investigation involved undercover purchases by two men who
went into gun dealerships, bought firearms and indicated that someone else would fill out the
paperwork. Such information as the name, age and place of residence of the two men wasn't
recorded by the people who sold the weapons, court records said.
Those arrested were: Wayne Miller, 55, owner of Southside Guns II; Jim Rose, 63, owner of Cassat
Gun; Jim Webb, 62, owner of American Gold Exchange; Abe Farhat, 39, employee of Green Acres
Sporting Goods; and Harvey Branch, 62, an employee of Fox Jewelry & Loan.
Webb was charged with three counts of violating federal firearms laws, while the others were
charged with four counts. Each count carries a maximum of five years in prison and $250,000 fine
if convicted. The men were released on $10,000 bond.
Ralph C. Ostrowski, special agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, said
the arrests should send a message that federally licensed gun dealers need to obey the law. He said
there are about 3,100 such dealers in Florida.
"A federally licensed gun dealer's access to large numbers of firearms makes them a particular
threat to public safety when they fail to comply with the law," Ostrowski said.
None of the gun dealers could be reached to comment. But Jacksonville attorney Hank Coxe, who
is representing Miller, said he was surprised by the arrests.
"I find it absolutely intriguing that all of a sudden five very reputable businessmen in this
community can all suddenly be accused of committing crimes," Coxe said. "I find that impossible
to believe."
The Jacksonville Sheriff's Office and State Attorney's Office assisted in the investigation.
according to a guy on the AR list this is what happened in Jacksonville:
> They recently did this in Jacksonville, FL with the help of the
> Jacksonville Sheriff's Office.
>
> They raided and arrested the owners of almost every major gun
> store in town, and shortly thereafter the Sheriff was on TELEVISION
> claiming that, "because of these arrests, our streets will be safer
> from illegal guns." and claimed the dealers were "criminals".
>
> What they did was have a man that had a felony arrest record come
> into each store and attempt to purchase a handgun. In EACH case,
> the dealers did not sell him the weapon and notified the police
> that he had attempted to purchase a firearm.
>
> 2 weeks after this "initial contact" they had a woman come into
> the store and purchase a firearm. During the transaction, the felon
> comes into the store and walks around the miscellaneous items areas
> AWAY from where the gun transaction was being made.
>
> They arrested the dealers on the claim that they "knowingly made a
> straw sale to a known felon."
> They recently did this in Jacksonville, FL with the help of the
> Jacksonville Sheriff's Office.
>
> They raided and arrested the owners of almost every major gun
> store in town, and shortly thereafter the Sheriff was on TELEVISION
> claiming that, "because of these arrests, our streets will be safer
> from illegal guns." and claimed the dealers were "criminals".
>
> What they did was have a man that had a felony arrest record come
> into each store and attempt to purchase a handgun. In EACH case,
> the dealers did not sell him the weapon and notified the police
> that he had attempted to purchase a firearm.
>
> 2 weeks after this "initial contact" they had a woman come into
> the store and purchase a firearm. During the transaction, the felon
> comes into the store and walks around the miscellaneous items areas
> AWAY from where the gun transaction was being made.
>
> They arrested the dealers on the claim that they "knowingly made a
> straw sale to a known felon."
There is a manufacturer here in Arizona just a few weeks before the raid on Jerry's who was raided because he was making the Maddi-Griffin rifles that Robert Stewart was manufaturing before HIS raid. I understand it was an agreement between Robert and this other manufacturer to get the rifles out that people had ordered before Robert's raid.
I also understand that these were not the kit rifles, but serial numbered and sold through a FFL.
RickD, can you provide more details on this one. Mine are a bit sketchy.
------------------
John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.COM & www.handguncontrol.NET are being sued by Handgun Control, Inc.!
See the "cease and desist" letter here: www.cphv.com/lawsuit.html
I also understand that these were not the kit rifles, but serial numbered and sold through a FFL.
RickD, can you provide more details on this one. Mine are a bit sketchy.
------------------
John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.COM & www.handguncontrol.NET are being sued by Handgun Control, Inc.!
See the "cease and desist" letter here: www.cphv.com/lawsuit.html
Yeah, pretty close.
Extreme Firearms located in Phx.
The Maadi-Griffin Model 89 .50BMG that was part of the raffle was donated by Extreme and was serial-numbered and had to go through an FFL.
The BATF, US Attorneys office, and the Department of Justice under the current and possibly the next administration are not our friends. They want to completely disarm us. Make no bones about it.
Rick
Rick
Extreme Firearms located in Phx.
The Maadi-Griffin Model 89 .50BMG that was part of the raffle was donated by Extreme and was serial-numbered and had to go through an FFL.
The BATF, US Attorneys office, and the Department of Justice under the current and possibly the next administration are not our friends. They want to completely disarm us. Make no bones about it.
Rick
Rick
hoosierboy
New member
Hey guys I just got off the phone with the GOA legal dept. It was a great coincedance that I was looking at this thread at the same time. I gave the woman on the line the information and she took it down and she told told me she will forward the info to larry pratt. I also told her I would give them $50 and the good thing its tax deductible!
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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"
http://hometown.aol.com//jsax13/web.html
Member NRA, GOA, JPFO, SAF, and CCRKBA.
------------------
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"
http://hometown.aol.com//jsax13/web.html
Member NRA, GOA, JPFO, SAF, and CCRKBA.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nevada Fitch:
Ever since Janet Reno got in power the ATF has been a loose Cannon.Remember Waco and Ruby Ridge.[/quote]
Sorry, but the problems with ATF can't blamed entirely on Generalisimo Reno...
Seeing as how Ruby Ridge was way before her time... and the genesis of the ATF Waco *investigation* (leading to the debacle that ended under her reign) was also pre-Reno...
Don't feel bad tho... a lot of folks like to assume things without knowing the facts 'cause they sound good or seem to make sense... and you're not the first in the 'gun culture' to make this mistake...
FWIW...
db
Ever since Janet Reno got in power the ATF has been a loose Cannon.Remember Waco and Ruby Ridge.[/quote]
Sorry, but the problems with ATF can't blamed entirely on Generalisimo Reno...
Seeing as how Ruby Ridge was way before her time... and the genesis of the ATF Waco *investigation* (leading to the debacle that ended under her reign) was also pre-Reno...
Don't feel bad tho... a lot of folks like to assume things without knowing the facts 'cause they sound good or seem to make sense... and you're not the first in the 'gun culture' to make this mistake...
FWIW...
db
hoosierboy
New member
I have to be honest here, she called me looking for a handout and I gave it to her. I should of called her, but she called me. I will take credit for this if he gets help though, hahah.
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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"
http://hometown.aol.com//jsax13/web.html
Member NRA, GOA, JPFO, SAF, and CCRKBA.
------------------
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"
http://hometown.aol.com//jsax13/web.html
Member NRA, GOA, JPFO, SAF, and CCRKBA.
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