Went looking for 1911s today

N

Nightcrawler

New member
The local shop, Carpenters, had two. A Springfield Commemorative NRA model (gold trim and so forth) for $1300 and a 40's vintage Colt M1911 (not A1) for $500. The second gun is in good shape, but has been reblued and isn't all original parts, so it's not really a collector's item. The sights were awful, though.

Gander mountain had two Kimbers, two Colt 1991s, and a Les Baer TRP for $1600 (no thanks). One of the clerks commented that nobody wanted to buy the Colts (priced $599 for parked and $699 for stainless). I explained that nobody wants to buy them because of the plastic trigger, the non-three dot sights, and so forth. The clerk mentioned that one shouldn't forget Colt's rather lackluster customer service and the difficulty one has in getting parts from them. (I like the clerks at Gander Mountain; they know their stuff.)

He also price-quoted a Springfield Mil-Spec for me: $499.00. Sounds good to me! I would just get a regular Springfield Full Size, since according to Springfield Armory, all non-Mil Spec models will be shipping with ambi safeties starting April 1, 2002. But I think the spur hammer looks nicer. I'll probably, down the road a bit, send the gun to Arizona Response Systems for an ambi safety installation and a METACOL III finish. What color? Gray or Classic Patina, probably. The latter looks more old fashioned, more suitable to a government model.
 
On the other hand, I've heard good things about the new Colts. For one, they've gotten rid of that awful "M1991A1(tm)" on the slide. And, they are made in the USA, as well as having the spur hammer.

Do they have 3-dot sights, or do they still use the old style black sights as seen on the M1991s I was looking at?

How much do they cost, abouts?

Do they come in parkerized? I'd very much prefer parkerized over blued.
 
1911

Check the Springfield Website. $499 is suggested retail. I would hope that you could get it somewhere else a bit cheaper (although I do like Gander Mountain!).
 
According to Springfield Armory's website, the MSRP for the basic Mil-Spec is $559.00.

That's a $60.00 savings, which is fine. I'd be willing to pay more for a genuine, US-made Colt, though, if Colt's QC has improved.

CastleBravo, do you have a picture of the new Colts you could post, in blue and/or stainless? Do they have the Series 80 trigger? (Doesn't matter, just curious.)

The information on Colt's Website may or may not be outdated. They still call them M1991's there. According to them, the blue model has black sights whereas the stainless model has 3-dot. Both have plastic triggers (but then, the Springfield has the ILS, too, so they've both got the little things I don't like.)

Also, according to Colt's website, they have a custom shop and will do ambi safeties. I wonder if I could order one straight from the factory with an ambidextrious safety? I know it'd cost more, but it's going to cost at least $75 to get an ambi safety added later anyway...
 
You know, I've been thinking. It's too easy with 1911s to go spending too much money. Given my current budget, it'd probably be wisest to simply get the Mil-Spec and buy a few Wilson Magazines. Even though the new Springfield full sizes come standard with ambi safteys (are pictured with them in Volume 11 catalog), they have, for instance, forward cocking serrations (:barf: ) and the combat hammer (I like the service hammer).

All I'm looking for is a simple, basic service sidearm 1911. No bells, no whistles, no pinwheels, no cappucino machines. Just an ambi safety, 3-dot sights, and something that will reliably feed FMJ and JHP ammo.
 
All I'm looking for is a simple, basic service sidearm 1911 ... Just an ambi safety, 3-dot sights, and something that will reliably feed FMJ and JHP ammo.
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Famous last words. Hope your bank account is full!
 
I can generally avoid the temptation to customize for several reasons:

-Almost no gunsmiths in the area;
-I have not the skills to do it myself (I don't even own a dremel).
-I think simplicity is a beauty all of its own.

I find most of the "bells & whistles" you can get in a $1600 Les Baer unnecessary.
 
The bells and whistles are definitely unnecessary. The catch is that you want a "basic service sidearm" in 1911 that will feed JHP.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am definitely a 1911 fan, and I enjoy my Kimber a great deal. But the 1911 as a basic service sidearm was never meant to deal with JHP. Once you get one that does, you've already left the "basic" arena (no more mil-spec for you).

OK, so now you've left the mil-spec arena. You're already spending a little more than you want to. And now you get to decide if you want a very tight 1911 (like Kimber), or one that trades a little accuracy for reliability. Then, whichever you pick, you'll have to make sure it has the ambi safety and dot sights that you want.
 
I'm not worried about it being truly mil-spec. If I wanted that I'd find and old GI gun. I just want a simple pistol I can count on.

Reliability over accuracy. I'm not a good enough shot to need to worry about MOA accuracy or anything like that.
 
Hmm. Perhaps I'll forego the spur hammer and live with forward cocking serrations and get the Springfield Service Model. I have the new Springfield print catalog (volume 11). Springfield emailed me also and told me that all non-mil-spec models will come with an ambi safety. The catalog shows all but the High Capacity and two compact models as having ambi safeties.

Besides, that *would* give me an excuse to get a second, more traditional looking Government Model later on, wouldn't it? :D
 
Besides, that *would* give me an excuse to get a second, more traditional looking Government Model later on, wouldn't it?
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See? See?


But seriously, I was going to recommend one of the new Springers for you, as they should have the dot sights and ambi safety. Personally, I think Kimber makes a better $600 gun and Springfield might make a better top-of-the-line gun, but if you're looking to stay close to $600, Springfield would work.
 
i got a springfield mil-spec last year as a gift. ive put through close to 1,000 rounds through it of reloads and wolf ammo. i love it, but hate the sights on it. the mil spec is just that military specification, i have used only lead and FMJ in it and i do not plan on using jhp, as theyre illegal in the state of NJ accept for law enforcement personell and the like. oh yeah i paid around 600 with the tax and such
 
My new Colt Commander has three dot sights and the factory trigger was aluminum. The only mod I plan on making is changing out the long trigger for a short one which I did a week ago. This pistol has made me a Colt fan again. I just need to callous up in the web of my hand and everything will be gravy. It was 570 (cash price) out the door. Trigger was 20.

I have a SA Mil-Spec too as well as some "loaded" models in 9mm. Good pistols, my only complaint is the extra beef on the front strap and dust cover. I assume this is for the gunsmith to have extra metal to play with but it does throw off the feel for me. The extra metal on the dust cover makes a very snug fit in the holsters that are broken in for my other makes of 1911s.
 
Just for the record, When you get a Les Baer your not getting merely "Bells and Whistles" your paying for the time a gunsmith, not an assembly line worker, spent fitting and adjusting things to make the gun better. I like my Gold Cup Trophy alot but it doesn't come close to my Comanche Monolith.
 
I know why a Les Baer costs more. But for that much (and I've checked), I could have a custom pistol built for me, personally, and would rather go that route.

Problem is, I don't *have* $1600+ to spend right now, nor any time soon.
 
I just bought a Springfield Loaded w/ parkerized finish today for 610 bucks NIB. The Springfield Mil-Specs were 500. Just thought you may want to know.
 
To the prospective first-time 1911 owner:

The real 1911 lover will most likely want to own Colts. And Kimbers. And Springfields. And perhaps another make or two!

I've got four Kimbers, two Colts, and I had a Springfield, and I'm really yearning for another Colt or two, as well as another Springfield (once I forget the bad one I had). Remember that Colts are where this whole 1911 thing started. They've been making 1911's for, oh 91 years now! But the new kids on the block (Springfield & Kimber) are also doing some cool things with steel! They're all cool, each with their own uniqueness, so let's don't get too territorial about any one brand. And by the way, tightness is a bit over rated, especially where reliability is the paramount concern. And for me, reliability is more important than ANYTHING.

Colts are deliberately built with a little more clearance than some super-tight guns and their chamber throats are "swaled" a little, so that they are most likely to function flawlessly right out-of-the-box and keep on flawlessly even given a little dirt and muck. There is wisdom there. Regarding Colt's current production quality control, Mas Ayoob stated recently in Combat Handguns magazine, (May 2002 issue, p. 61), in his review of Colt's new issue GI M1911 that "the more modern versions Colt now produces are absolutely superb guns, utterly reliable and accurate." He was referring to Colt's current production of 1991A1s, Government Models, Commanders, Defenders, Gold Cup, and Special Combat models.

My ultra tight Springfield and one of my ultra tight Kimbers were little bitches from the get-go. Then I learned to make some adjustments and processed 500 rounds or so through them and the Kimber loosened up a little, finally coming around. The Springfield never did become fully trustworthy (though I thought it had for awhile). My Colts (and two of my Kimbers, Eclipse & the Compact CDP) have functioned flawlessly from round one. My Eclipse Custom II has been a great shooter from round 1. And I hope that my newest Kimber, a basic Custom Stainless (Series 1) will be equally reliable and accurate. I'll pick it up and shoot it this week.

Out-of-the-box reliability from Kimbers and Springfields can be something of a crap-shoot these days, especially on the smaller (Ultra) models! But the new Colts seem to have reliability pretty much down from the get-go.

I do love my Colts and Kimbers, and wouldn't want to give any of them up! But I'm really leery of Springfields at the moment. Though someday I would like to try another one and see it it can be worthy of a permanent spot in my collection. I would definitely recommend any Colt (especially in full-size 5" models, or Commander size) to a new shooter, but Kimber can be a great choice to start with also. Especially if you can still find a new Kimber Series 1 in your area, that would be the best Kimber buy, though I am having good luck with my full size Eclipse Series II.

If you're unlucky enough to get a bitchy 1911, it will force you to learn quite a bit in taming it.... and in the process, you will come to know 1911's, their quirks and needs, fairly well.

Of course there is also that chance that the 1911 newbie will get a perfectly functioning Colt, Kimber, or Springfield on the first try. I guess then, though, he might not come to learn so much about the "ways" of 1911s!

Both of my new Colts run flawless right out-of-the-box!!! And they are very beautiful pistols. The Gold Cup is definitely a step up and probably the best buy in an accurized 1911 with upgraded features (just $850 or so.) My 1991 with Bo-Mar, alum trigger and rosewood grips was about $700. Here's a picture I took of my 1991A1:

Colt1991A1.jpg


One of these days I'll photograph my Gold Cup Trophy also.

You gotta give Colt 1911's a look. They are the originals. Also Kimbers.

This is REALLY fun! ;)
 
If you're unlucky enough to get a bitchy 1911, it will force you to learn quite a bit in taming it.... and in the process, you will come to know 1911's, their quirks and needs, fairly well.
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Do share! What'd you learn?
 
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