Weimaraner

[1hogfan83]

I have know the owners of two weini's. One better than the other, he was a handful to say the least. Beautiful dogs though.

 

[shortwave]

If you get a good German Shepherd you'll have to go Germany or some other teutonic nation.

...

...This is very true and...



....West Germany to be exact... or Czechoslovakia.

East Germany has done as much to ruin as many breeds(esp. the working lines) as the U.S. and are not allowed to breed with breeders from W.Germany or Czech.

 

[Hansam]

He regularly blasted the AKC for what its judgement policies had done to the various types of dogs. I did some exploratory reading, and saw comparative pictures of working dogs versus show dogs.

This is all too true of many breeds today. Here are a couple of examples:

Show line herding dogs tend to have bodies whose shapes and lines are not conducive to long hours of herding work. They are also less energetic and don't have the heart for the kind of training that is required of a good herder.

In sporting breeds there are some breeds that are more extreme than others. In Great Britain there is a breed of hunting hound that, when compared to prime examples of the same breed from 100 yrs ago, don't even look like the same breed nor are they as capable a hunter.

In labs (something I'm personally very familiar with) field labs are slenderer and tend to have longer legs than their show counterparts. They are also slenderer and longer of head and muzzle too. Energy wise the field dogs are considerably more energetic than show dogs and they are less heavily muscled with a great deal more stamina. Trainers like me would also argue that the field dogs are also smarter than show dogs as well. Between the two the field dogs are called American and the show dogs are called British.

In Springers (also one of my favorite breeds) the field lines have shorter fur, longer legs and are also slenderer of build. They are also higher energy dogs with more drive and more endurance for hunting. Their coloration is primarily white with spots of black, liver or a combination of both as well as a good deal of ticking (tiny spots of color) all over. A show dog of this breed would have a large solid blanket of color on the entire body and have little ticking if any. These dogs have much longer fur, shorter legs (generally) and are of a thicker body build. They also do not have as good of noses, are not as energetic and have much less stamina.

I could go on and on but frankly I think that conformity shows are ruining dogs all over the world. Breeders breed dogs with visual characteristics that judges have decided are the perfect visual ideal of that breed (according to THEIR opinion). These dogs are then peddled as being the ideal of the breed despite the fact that much of their actual physical performance is being bred out and sometimes the visual characteristics that are so pleasing to the show crowd actually impedes the dog in the task it was originally bred to do.

IMHO we're talking about a bunch of breeds that aren't ideal for a first time dog owner. OP, if that's the case I'd recommend a lab. I'd also recommend a breed specific rescue group as a potential source of finding a dog. A good rescue group can help you select a dog that will fit into your lifestyle.

First off this is not a first time dog owner. The OP currently has a border collie and has owned in the past a samoyed. Neither are what I would consider "first time dogs". I don't believe that a Pyrenees is beyond the OP's capabilities as an owner. In fact a Pyrenees, when allowed to do what it was bred to do and given basic obedience training, is a VERY easy dog to own... well a working line Pyrenees anyway. Show line pyrs tend to be VERY high maintenance regarding their coats.

Labs aren't exactly easy first time dogs either unless you're talking about a show lab. Field labs are VERY energetic and VERY eager to work and hunt. They require a very experienced owner who has the time and energy to take the dog out every day to work and play for long periods of time. That alone eliminates MOST average dog owners in the country despite the lab being the most owned dog in the country.

 

[shortwave]

Hansam,

The info. in your posts pertaining to ruining breeds , breeding for show versus breeding for what a breed was originally designed to do is spot on and shows your knowledge of how many breeds are being ruined.

Thanks for your posts.

The best advice I can give the OP is whichever breed he chooses is to:

A) Extensively research the breed and be armed with the knowledge of what physical and mental characteristics of that particular breed are supposed to be versus what the show breeders are breading for today.

B) Research the breeder/kennel to see if the seller has a reputation of breeding for show or is interested in breeding for what the breed is intended for.

C) Armed with the above knowledge, if at all possible, see the parents of the pup to insure they meet the specific requirements you learned of that breed.

D) DON'T BE RUSHED. A breeder rushing and not spending time with you is NOT interested in anything but making a sale. A good breeder that cares for their animals wants a good match between the pup they sell and new prospective owner.

This whole process takes time but remember, you're hopefully going to have the dog for many years so the time spent up front is well worth it.

One more thing. After you've researched/picked your breed, call some of your local vets., tell them specifically what your looking for(as in a breeder not breeding for show but has an old bloodline for that specific dog that breeds for dogs original purposes) and ask them if they know of any reputable breeders.