weighing powder, just wondering

N

NHSHOOTER

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I was having a discussion with 1 of the clerks at my local gunshop. He basically runs the reloading dept.
Now, I weigh each load for my rifle cartridges, even if I am loading ball powder that my thrower throws pretty consistant.
I was just wondering what the general consensus was on what percentage of plus or minus each of you uses when you charge your cases? Mine are right on the money each time just to know where I am coming from.
The clerk at the lgs is the same as me when it comes to weighing, its right on or nothing.
 
This has been discussed a bit. The general thinking is that thrown charges are just fine for 99% of shooters. I'm a pretty low volume re-loader and it takes time to set up for throwing charges and verify they are correct on a scale. I just weigh each one. With the time it takes to set up everything to throw charges I can be 1/2 through by just weighing. If I were loading in greater volume I'd not weigh every one though.
 
I agree with jmr40. For 99% of shooters a small variation is powder weight won't show on target. That's a small variation in the two-tenths of a grain range. Now for small charges .2 may be a lot while in rifle charges 20 or more grains and up it's a very small change. What I've read about long distance shooters with special rifles, that even one stick of powder can make a difference. Saying all that, I too weigh every rifle charge and try to be "exact" to the best of mine and my scales ability.
 
I hand throw everything and I'd like it within .2-.5gr. I throw the case on the scale, tare, then charge. It is time consuming enough that I am considering buying a thrower.
 
For my .22 hornet with LilGun Loads I use a RCBS powder measure but check on the scale fairly often…. this is also an easy load to check visually.

For bigger center fires I hand weigh each load [scoop and trickler] especially when working up loads or with extruded powders.

Not a high volume loader and I kinda enjoy the "zen" of it.

Mike
 
I load for 40-some rifle cartridges and for years carefully weighed each powder charge. Finally woke up and realized what a wonderful waste of time that was. Now everything is thrown by RCBS powder measurers. Rarely does the scale see any use, especially when loading reduced rounds with Trail Boss powder that you learn to adjust visually by the amount of powder thrown into the case, which is usually what is called a max charge--fill the case to the level where the base of the bullet will be seated to. Use the scale just to set up charges with the measure for standard powders. I fire too many rifle rounds weekly to waste time weighing the charges; would be spending all my time just reloading.
 
It's funny this thread just came up . I just threw 50 charges for the first time for 223/5.56 . using IMR 4320 . Even though I threw them all I weighed a lot of them to see where I was and how well it worked . It does OK when thrown most were with in .2gr but I had a few in the .3 to .5 area . I went and shot those 50 rounds yesterday and I did not notice a difference from shot to shot . Now that was a plinking load that I used a red dot with . I hit everything I was aiming at and even shot a 1.7" group at 100yds with the red dot .

Now I've tested throwing H-335 and that seems to throw great and I'd have no problem doing so but again I use that powder for cheap plinking loads as well . My understanding is a .3gr swing is not going to be noticed by most . That's .15 low to .15 high of your intended charge . I have no problem excepting that .

That all being said , I agree that would be more true with cartridges that use 20+gr of powder . I see some hand gun data that has a .8gr swing from min to max loads . I would not want a .3 or .4 swing in those loads . That could easily result in a AVG 50 to 100fps difference . That same .3gr difference in a 308 cartridge would only effect the ES/SD and the AVG velocity would likely stay the same . I'll also add that I've done test that show how I held the rifle could effect velocity more then .3gr of powder would . I'm relatively new to pistol loading so I'm not sure what effects the grip and hold would have on internal ballistics when shooting hand guns .

All that being said again , I weigh each charge perfectly for my NM and target rifles . To the point of throwing the charge close , trickle to get it closer then use tweezers to toss one piece of powder at a time to get the weight perfect .
 
I throw all mine, and try to do ladder tests when doing load development to try and find sweet spots where a small variation in powder charge doesn't hurt accuracy.

Here is a typical group for my 1960's vintage Sako Forester varmint, .243 Win, 5 rounds, 100 yards, 90gr Berger BTHP, 36g IMR4064, Fed GM primer, Lapua brass

sako_berger90.jpg


Every charge was thrown through a RCBS powder measure, and it crunched every time. IMR4064 is a reasonably long extruded powder with a reputation for not metering well. With that load, in that rifle, it doesn't seem to matter at all.

Then again, that rifle is a freak, it makes me look like a rock star. I had 8 bullets left in a box of 71 grain Bergers, and just for the hell of it threw them with the same charge I was using for the 90s. No load development, I eyeballed the seating depth, just wanted to use them up. Put them in just under 1/2" at 100 yards.

This is with a wooden stocked, non-floated Bofurs barrel made during the Kennedy Administration.

sako_berger71.jpg
 
I am by no means a great shooter so my results must bear that in mind, but then all results were shot by me and so comparably bad!!

I recently treated myself to an automatic powder measure. A lengthy thread preceded the buy with advocates of this brand or that. I bought a Lyman Gen 6 knowing that it had some variation in accuracy but unable to afford the RCBS Chargemaster.

In order to put my fears to rest I decided to load 20rds of my most accurate load manually with a Lee Safety Scale and another 20 just using the Lyman Gen 6.

The group from the Lyman loaded cartridges was tighter. So for me, I can say that I will just load from the Lyman and perhaps occasionally check on the beam scales.

So, given that the Lyman scale claims +/- 0.2gn of deviation and it still put out a tighter group, I'd say that spot on is not so crucial.
 
In my experience thrown charges are more consistent than weighed charges. It seems backwards to me but in my experiments over a chronograph thrown charges have lower ESs and SDs than weighed charges. And this was in 357 Magnum and 45 Colt. In a larger capacity rifle case the variation from charge-to-charge is an even smaller percentage of the powder charge. My rifles will consistently give sub-1% SDs with thrown charges. Weighing every charge is a waste of time and the automatic powder dispensers are a huge waste of money. A Uniflow and a beam scale to dial it in are all you need.
 
I do not load much Rifle anymore but load a lot of Handgun rounds . I load on a single stage a bunch as I really love the time spent loading . I use a 50 case loading block a charge all 50 one after the other . Then I weight the first case the middle case and the last case . If all is OK I run a light over the 50 cases and seat a bullet . I never load anything MAX and + OR MINUS .2 is OK .
 
I set my powder drop to be about +/- .1 grain of what I want. I then use the powder drop to charge cases using my Lee Turret Press. Every 10th case I pour into the RCBS scale pan and weigh it. I'm looking for +/- .2 grains for my reloads. If I do not get that I adjust the setup again weighing every drop until I get what I am looking for. I only concern myself with pulling bullets if a case is empty, or almost empty, and then I only have at most 10 cases to deal with. I load mid-range with either Unique, or 2400. I find it pretty easy to keep track of what is in the case.
 
Another thing I do when setting up the measure, is to not weigh one load, but three or four, depending on the volume.

For example, the 36gr charge of 4064 above, I set the scale for 108 grains, and threw three charges into it. You really want an average charge weight anyway, and that keeps you from fiddling with it unnecessarily.

For a pistol load or .223 where the charge weight is even lighter, I will do 4 or 5 charges in the pan while setting up the scale.
 
Wouldn't this decision also be based on the type of powder used. Some powders (long extruded ones for instance) just don't meter well.
 
I guess it depends. I don't like maximum loads on general principle, as it makes me nervous. I set my powder measure to throw the charges I want, and then simply dump the loads from my powder measure, except my 6.5x47 Lapua where I weigh each one to .01 grain on one of those fancy electric scales. 1 kernel of some powders is enough to vary the charge.

I also weigh my charges of black powder for my 45-70 some of the time, although I do not shoot that rifle well enough to notice any differences in accuracy. Mostly it is to notice the variation in charge weight as I load it as a matter of casual interest.

However, I tend to choose powders that meter well, such as 231, Ramshot TAC, 2400, etc.
 
I set each load to be about -.2 then finish off with my RCBS powder trickler. I make each load perfect this way, this is for rifle only.
 
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