Webley fans ?
- Thread starter guy sajer
- Start date
About a month or so ago, I was browsing www.gunbroker.com for webleys. I came across one (unsure of what model it was) that was nickle plated and the seller claimed that it was used by British embasy guards in India. It looked really nice but I didn't want to buy it unless I knew the finish were original. I couldn't find any info in time nor did the seller get back to me. So I let the auction slide. I haven't seen one like it since. It was chambered for the .38/200.
(This is my first post since TFL has come back, I'm so happy!)
(This is my first post since TFL has come back, I'm so happy!)
Hand_Rifle_Guy
New member
Capermaster-
English Bulldog revolvers are typified by their snubby configuration and usually a five-shot large-caliber cylinder. They are also mostly built on the R.I.C., or Royal Irish Constabulary revolver frame. R.I.C.'s have a solid frame, rather than a break-top configuration, and sometimes load through a loading gate on the right-side recoil shield like a Colt SAA. They're unloaded by unscrewing and pulling out the cylinder pin, which allows the cylinder to swing out and the pin is used to push out the empty cases.
A lot of different builders made Bulldog revolvers in addition to Webley. There are also American "Bulldogs" in top-break configuration made by the likes of Forehand and Wadsworth or U.S Revolver around the 1900's. These came in all sorts of calibers, but they were always snubbies. British guns are mostly large-caliber, with the .44 Bulldog being the most prevalent.
.44 Bulldog rounds can be made from .44 Special cases by turning the rims thinner and shortening the case to about 9/16" OAL. (.562" or ~13mm.) Blackpowder was the usual loading, and the ballistics for the 200-grain RNL bullet were anemic at best, somwhere in the realm of 500 fps. Like the .41 Short Rimfire of Remington double derringer fame, this round was not very powerful, but nicely intimidating from the front. Also, it's outside-lubed bullet, again like the .41, was feared for it's propensity to fail to penetrate through-and-through. This would carry along into the wound a good dose of pocket lint and dirt stuck to the lubricant, inviting a lingering, painful death from infection should the victim survive the initial wound. This was a significant danger around the turn of the century, well before the advent of advanced surgery and antibiotics.
English Bulldog revolvers are typified by their snubby configuration and usually a five-shot large-caliber cylinder. They are also mostly built on the R.I.C., or Royal Irish Constabulary revolver frame. R.I.C.'s have a solid frame, rather than a break-top configuration, and sometimes load through a loading gate on the right-side recoil shield like a Colt SAA. They're unloaded by unscrewing and pulling out the cylinder pin, which allows the cylinder to swing out and the pin is used to push out the empty cases.
A lot of different builders made Bulldog revolvers in addition to Webley. There are also American "Bulldogs" in top-break configuration made by the likes of Forehand and Wadsworth or U.S Revolver around the 1900's. These came in all sorts of calibers, but they were always snubbies. British guns are mostly large-caliber, with the .44 Bulldog being the most prevalent.
.44 Bulldog rounds can be made from .44 Special cases by turning the rims thinner and shortening the case to about 9/16" OAL. (.562" or ~13mm.) Blackpowder was the usual loading, and the ballistics for the 200-grain RNL bullet were anemic at best, somwhere in the realm of 500 fps. Like the .41 Short Rimfire of Remington double derringer fame, this round was not very powerful, but nicely intimidating from the front. Also, it's outside-lubed bullet, again like the .41, was feared for it's propensity to fail to penetrate through-and-through. This would carry along into the wound a good dose of pocket lint and dirt stuck to the lubricant, inviting a lingering, painful death from infection should the victim survive the initial wound. This was a significant danger around the turn of the century, well before the advent of advanced surgery and antibiotics.
capermaster
Inactive
Thanks!
A wealth of info! Thanks! I love coming here.
A wealth of info! Thanks! I love coming here.
That's Bull Dog to you, sir!
The real P. Webley & Son revolvers are marked on the top strap "THE BRITISH BULL DOG," and it's always two separate words. The Belgians and Spanish made lots of copies, and they always misspelled it as "BULLDOG." It's a handy thing to know, as some of the Belgian copies were quite good.
The gun is about the size of an old S&W .38 Chief's Special, and the real ones are also five-shot. The proportions are a bit different, though. The cylinder is fatter to hold that .44 caliber round, but shorter, and the barrel is longer by about half an inch. The cylinder, by the way, does not swing out. There's a loading gate on the right side of the recoil shield, and the ejector rod, which normally sits inside the hollow cylinder pin, pulls forward, then pivots to the right to punch empties out through the loading gate. It's the only thing on the gun that feels a bit flimsy, but mine's been working just fine for about 125 years. I'll try to be back with a picture to post.
The .442 RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) packs about 250 ft/lbs at the muzzle, according to one source, which ain't bad for a black powder round from the 1880s. It beat the beejayzus out of the small pistol cartridges of its day, which were mostly rimfire. If you want to see one, watch the History Channel Tales of the Gun for the "Guns of Infamy" episode. It's what was used to shoot James Garfield in 1880. The show has its share of misinformation, and the narrator makes a point of mentioning that ithe gun sold for around $12.00 and leaves the impression it was a cheap Saturday night special, not mentioning that a dollar went a bit further then.
The real P. Webley & Son revolvers are marked on the top strap "THE BRITISH BULL DOG," and it's always two separate words. The Belgians and Spanish made lots of copies, and they always misspelled it as "BULLDOG." It's a handy thing to know, as some of the Belgian copies were quite good.
The gun is about the size of an old S&W .38 Chief's Special, and the real ones are also five-shot. The proportions are a bit different, though. The cylinder is fatter to hold that .44 caliber round, but shorter, and the barrel is longer by about half an inch. The cylinder, by the way, does not swing out. There's a loading gate on the right side of the recoil shield, and the ejector rod, which normally sits inside the hollow cylinder pin, pulls forward, then pivots to the right to punch empties out through the loading gate. It's the only thing on the gun that feels a bit flimsy, but mine's been working just fine for about 125 years. I'll try to be back with a picture to post.
The .442 RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) packs about 250 ft/lbs at the muzzle, according to one source, which ain't bad for a black powder round from the 1880s. It beat the beejayzus out of the small pistol cartridges of its day, which were mostly rimfire. If you want to see one, watch the History Channel Tales of the Gun for the "Guns of Infamy" episode. It's what was used to shoot James Garfield in 1880. The show has its share of misinformation, and the narrator makes a point of mentioning that ithe gun sold for around $12.00 and leaves the impression it was a cheap Saturday night special, not mentioning that a dollar went a bit further then.
Currently have two. A 1897? MArkI Navy model, cylinder trimmed fro 45 acp. This one does not get fired much, due to age. Paid $90
Also got an 1925 Enfield MArk VI, all original with slight pitting in bore. Judging from complete lack of wear patterns, someone probably shot a cylinder full, then let it sit. Paid $250.
On both models the cylinder throats slugged at approximately .449. Hornady now makes Mark II brass (shorter version of brass), available from Graph and Sons. Bought some of the brass, the primer hole is too deep for use with the RCBS hand primer. Haven't tried another crimping method , so far. Had to shorten a standard 45 acp roll crimp die (Redding profile crimp), for crimping.
Also got an 1925 Enfield MArk VI, all original with slight pitting in bore. Judging from complete lack of wear patterns, someone probably shot a cylinder full, then let it sit. Paid $250.
On both models the cylinder throats slugged at approximately .449. Hornady now makes Mark II brass (shorter version of brass), available from Graph and Sons. Bought some of the brass, the primer hole is too deep for use with the RCBS hand primer. Haven't tried another crimping method , so far. Had to shorten a standard 45 acp roll crimp die (Redding profile crimp), for crimping.
The Mk 6 is the best5 revolver ever.
As far as I am Concerned the Webley mk6 in 45acp or 455 is the best service revolver ever made. Its rugged, powerful (with low recoil), light wgt (one weighs the same as a 1911-A1), accurate, and simple.
The tpbreak action makes reloading as fast as an auto with moonclips. And the moonclips remove the tendecy for the rimes of the casings to fall under the the ejection star.
I have handled several different topbreak models and I have found that the stirup latch is the strongest ever made. I have seen once picture of an earlier Mk4 or 5 in 455 with a blown cylinder. The tops had been blown off three chambers and the topstrap had been ripped free from the barrel right at the cylinder gap and yet the stirup was still inttacked, albet a little worse for wear.
I have also seen a picture of a Colt official police in 38S&W and a Webley Mk4 in the same caliber both with several slugs lodged in the barrel. The webley was sectioned and had seven and I could not tell with the Colt. The Colts barrel was split and buged but the webley barrel showed no other damage besides the cutting.
As far as I am Concerned the Webley mk6 in 45acp or 455 is the best service revolver ever made. Its rugged, powerful (with low recoil), light wgt (one weighs the same as a 1911-A1), accurate, and simple.
The tpbreak action makes reloading as fast as an auto with moonclips. And the moonclips remove the tendecy for the rimes of the casings to fall under the the ejection star.
I have handled several different topbreak models and I have found that the stirup latch is the strongest ever made. I have seen once picture of an earlier Mk4 or 5 in 455 with a blown cylinder. The tops had been blown off three chambers and the topstrap had been ripped free from the barrel right at the cylinder gap and yet the stirup was still inttacked, albet a little worse for wear.
I have also seen a picture of a Colt official police in 38S&W and a Webley Mk4 in the same caliber both with several slugs lodged in the barrel. The webley was sectioned and had seven and I could not tell with the Colt. The Colts barrel was split and buged but the webley barrel showed no other damage besides the cutting.
Webleywielder
Moderator
Webley, the ultimate full-size self defense revolver.
With a slightly modified Webley Mk VI an average IPSC shooter with very little practice can dominate all but the very best shooters using hand ejector type revolvers due to consistantly fast and reliable reloading. The top level of revolver competitors that have hundreds if not thousands of hours of practice developing reloading speed and use guns with lighter and smoother trigger pulls, and lighter recoiling ammunition are very difficult for an average shooter using a Webley to defeat, but it does happen. I know this from personal experience.
Perhaps modern materials, slight design improvements, and a change in caliber would result in a new "Webley type" revolver that would enable a superior shooter to dominate anyone using a hand ejector type revolver. Ever seen Jerry M. and the other top wheelgun shooters make a reload when in a less than ideal position during a match? They slow down quite abit. Webleys are much easier to reload when in a less than ideal position. Some day I would like to see an IPSC, USPSA, and IDPA match conducted with all the competitors having to crawl out of a muddy hole, in the rain, at night, shooting while making making 3 second rushes to cover and only after being awake for 24 hours. I think it would be interesting to see how competitors and equipment perform under conditions close to a worst case scenario.
In a world devoid of semiautomatics, a properly set-up Webley would be the ultimate full-size self-defense handgun.
With a slightly modified Webley Mk VI an average IPSC shooter with very little practice can dominate all but the very best shooters using hand ejector type revolvers due to consistantly fast and reliable reloading. The top level of revolver competitors that have hundreds if not thousands of hours of practice developing reloading speed and use guns with lighter and smoother trigger pulls, and lighter recoiling ammunition are very difficult for an average shooter using a Webley to defeat, but it does happen. I know this from personal experience.
Perhaps modern materials, slight design improvements, and a change in caliber would result in a new "Webley type" revolver that would enable a superior shooter to dominate anyone using a hand ejector type revolver. Ever seen Jerry M. and the other top wheelgun shooters make a reload when in a less than ideal position during a match? They slow down quite abit. Webleys are much easier to reload when in a less than ideal position. Some day I would like to see an IPSC, USPSA, and IDPA match conducted with all the competitors having to crawl out of a muddy hole, in the rain, at night, shooting while making making 3 second rushes to cover and only after being awake for 24 hours. I think it would be interesting to see how competitors and equipment perform under conditions close to a worst case scenario.
In a world devoid of semiautomatics, a properly set-up Webley would be the ultimate full-size self-defense handgun.
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Webleywielder
Moderator
Webley loads for Saber22
Stay away from high pressure .45 ACP loads. The Webley Mk VI is mechanically strong but the steel it is made of is not. I would also stay away from Magsafe, Glaser, or any other very low weight high velocity loadings because of the risk of flame cutting. I handload 185, 200, and 230 grain lead and jacketed bullets. It takes less powder to make IPSC Major with a 6" Webley Mk VI than what is needed for a 5" M1911. I have shot tens of thousands of ACP and AutoRim through Mk VI revolvers with nary a problem. Have a gunsmith check your Webley for soundness and then get yourself a good reloading manual.
In a world devoid of semiautomatics, a properly set-up Webley is the ultimate full-size self-defense handgun.
Stay away from high pressure .45 ACP loads. The Webley Mk VI is mechanically strong but the steel it is made of is not. I would also stay away from Magsafe, Glaser, or any other very low weight high velocity loadings because of the risk of flame cutting. I handload 185, 200, and 230 grain lead and jacketed bullets. It takes less powder to make IPSC Major with a 6" Webley Mk VI than what is needed for a 5" M1911. I have shot tens of thousands of ACP and AutoRim through Mk VI revolvers with nary a problem. Have a gunsmith check your Webley for soundness and then get yourself a good reloading manual.
In a world devoid of semiautomatics, a properly set-up Webley is the ultimate full-size self-defense handgun.
Maybe it's just because I read too much Kipling, but I always thought a .455 Webley would be a dandy old revolver to own. If I had my druthers, a nice smokeless powder model with 6" bbl would be ideal, but a 4" round-butt would be just as good. And as long as I'm wishing, a *spare* cylinder converted to handle .45 ACP w/clips. 
Thanks for the pix, folks! "Quick, Watson, your Webley..."
Thanks for the pix, folks! "Quick, Watson, your Webley..."
Webley's are Rad!
I used to own one of the .38s when I first became interested in wheelguns years ago. I parted with it only to buy something big, stainless, more powerful, and whiz-bang neato cool.
Having never had a .455 model, I am still intrigued by it's possibilities and am even more intrigued by señor webleyweilder's suggestions of what a newer model could do in IDPA and, more importantly, real life shtf conditions.
I'm not very up on my movie lore, but didn't the lead character in the Mummy movies (Brendan Fraser) use a Webley?
I have to say, the brass puker :barf: .45 auto I have isn't nearly as cool. Think I'll go look for a Webley now.
Nice thread.
I used to own one of the .38s when I first became interested in wheelguns years ago. I parted with it only to buy something big, stainless, more powerful, and whiz-bang neato cool.
Having never had a .455 model, I am still intrigued by it's possibilities and am even more intrigued by señor webleyweilder's suggestions of what a newer model could do in IDPA and, more importantly, real life shtf conditions.
I'm not very up on my movie lore, but didn't the lead character in the Mummy movies (Brendan Fraser) use a Webley?
I have to say, the brass puker :barf: .45 auto I have isn't nearly as cool. Think I'll go look for a Webley now.
Nice thread.
Blue Heeler
Moderator
First proper handgun I ever shot was one of these, I was eighteen and that wasn't yesterday. Unfortunately for the Webley I shot a S&W a week later.
Both were .38's Military Issue. I loved the Smith and could actually hit what I was aiming at, something I very seldom managed with the Webley.
Nevertheless, the Webley is a piece of history, and if I ever get the chance to acquire one in A1 condition I will.
Both were .38's Military Issue. I loved the Smith and could actually hit what I was aiming at, something I very seldom managed with the Webley.
Nevertheless, the Webley is a piece of history, and if I ever get the chance to acquire one in A1 condition I will.
doktortodd
Inactive
Todd
I have a box of fiochi 455, but no longer have the pistol:-( I live in Arizona and would like to get rid of it but don't want to mail it.
I have a box of fiochi 455, but no longer have the pistol:-( I live in Arizona and would like to get rid of it but don't want to mail it.
Almost got a MkV converted to .45acp a couple of years ago. Seller wanted $175 but it sold before I could get the money together 
I'm still heartbroken. I wonder, could .45 Colt brass be trimmed down and used in a non-converted Webley? I know its rim is thinner than an acp in a moon clip or a .45AR.
I'm still heartbroken. I wonder, could .45 Colt brass be trimmed down and used in a non-converted Webley? I know its rim is thinner than an acp in a moon clip or a .45AR.