Weaver vs Isosceles

From the "For What It's Worth" file...

I shoot competition: Bullseye, International Center Fire, Cowboy and PPC when I can. Bullseye and ICF are fired one handed. Some Cowboy is fired one handed. PPC is fired two handed. I used to shoot in some proto IPSC type matches with less rules and real guns, but haven't been able to do so for some time. (And my knees are bad.)

For pretty much all the deliberate, carefully sighted fire, I use a 'stiff-arm-locked-elbow-locked-wrist-(semi)death-grip' approach. Shooting two handed, this obviously translates to isosceles. When I shoot multiple targets with broad target areas or do the shoot/move/shoot format, I use more of a bent elbow Weaver method. All two handed shooting puts the weak hand over the fingers of the strong hand and at least a mild 'push-pull' effect. I fear I do very little exactly like shown in the school books.

As Brother March said, the harder recoiling handguns are far more controllable - not to mention comfortable - from a bent arm posture.

Ah; the 'square or sideways' question. This has been argued since the days of the formal duel. The 'square' contingent argued "If hit, less damage is done; sideways gets both lungs penetrated". The 'sideways' faction claimed "Sideways is harder to hit; square presents a bigger target". To my knowledge the question has never been fully resolved. (I've never been able to decide, at any rate.)

I'm of the 'shoot them first and remove the threat' school. I'm not above seeking or taking cover, but many times running from a threat will simply give the threat time to shoot one in the back. It depends on how far it is to cover. If one is far from cover, and the adversary is behind cover, one must have remembered prior to settle one's affairs and make peace with God. But I'm getting far afield from the original question.

One must discover what works best in the immediate situation.
 
Well yeah, but my point with Weaver is that you can let it RADICALLY rise as need be and it will rise >>past<< your head. Isosceles will let it rise >>into<< your head.
I must be doing the Isosceles wrong. :D Somewhere I've got a picture of myself with a .500S&W in full recoil. The muzzle is vertical but the gun is nowhere near hitting my head.
I guess it could happen, I'll have to think about that one some more.
Question: what happens if you get ahold of an overcharge that doesn't manage to blow the gun up, but is significantly hotter than you'd expect?
Again, I guess it's possible to hold a gun so that it will recoil into your head if it surprises you, but I've only heard of this happening to children or non-shooters who were holding the gun improperly. The only exception I can recall is the video of the guy shooting the pistol chambered in 600NE.
 
In my case, I shoot a gun that's abnormally strong by 357 standards...
I passed up a chance to purchase a .357Mag Redhawk in excellent condition a couple of months ago. Things like that make me hate gunshows. The list of guns I SHOULD have bought at gunshows haunts me...
 
Excellent replies folks... I didn't get to the range yesterday due to sickness and some family stuff that popped up. Still going to try and make it out today. I also want to look a bit more into the Chapman.... I saw a little on that in passing the other day during research , but not nearly as many hits as Weaver or Iso.

Again , Weaver feels more natural to me in a leg stance .... Prior rifle shooting and fighting position I feel more balanced... So I believe a slightly modified Iso will be the most comfortable for me. I can definitely see how in many situation it wouldn't be feasible do to outside restraints.

I really do wish I could find more of the free combat/defensive shooting training videos ( I liked the home defense one from NRA ). I know the local gun shop offers an advanced CCW training , but I'm pretty sure it's mainly classroom and education to laws and allowable situations etc...
 
"The other big Weaver advantage is that the transition from rifle to handgun feels less abrupt."

It works both ways, though. Note: squared long guns shooting and tactical stances are a part of the training landscape across much of the military and law enforcement communities. For individuals receiving consistent "squared instruction," switching to bladed presents challenges --> There are more and more of such folks each year as the doctrinal transition marches on.
 
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If you put in enough practice, either one will become natural to you. I started out with a Chapman stance (extreme, modified weaver), but then trained into ISO. Either one works. Tailor your stance to what is natural, what you practice, and what suits your needs the best.

IMO, each has certain advantages
ISO: The symmetry makes consistency very easy for me. I can bring a pistol back to my chest, and still maintain 6" accuracy out to 10-15 feet. If body armor is worn, the best protection is toward the target (which is part of why LE/mil trainers like it). A squared stance can move in any direction fairly easily (why a lot of IPSC/IDPA competitors use it). One can turn either way without too much difficulty.

Weaver: Initially, pointing to targets was easier for me. You present a smaller target. You can stay steady while taking an impact from the target direction due to the bladed stance. Front/back movement is pretty easy.
 
Interesting thread...I came out of the Cooper/Modern Technique in the 1970s, but shifted to iso when I started shooting a lot of IPSC. When I began shooting more and more heavy caliber revolvers and lots of ARs, I (grudgingly) admitted to Ed Head at GUNSITE that the "square" Weaver did a better job of controlling the heavy recoil than the iso, and it "translated" better when moving to rifle or shotgun.

As I've mentioned before, couple of years ago I lost most of the vision in my dominant right eye (proving categorically that doctors are MUCH more dangerous than firearms!). This forced me to shoot left eye/right hand with the handgun and left-handed with long guns, so now it's almost 100% Weaver (and as yet still a really crappy sporting clays shooter!). Never really appreciated what cross dominance people went through...sorry, guys!

Agree with Biker, however...in a complex scenario you will (or should) typically flow from technique to technique, depending on what the situation calls for. Right barricade, left barricade, traditional rollover prone and some of the newer "urban" prone positions (designed to take advantage of, say, a car's wheel as cover) all can require different shooting techniques.

Back in the early days of IPSC we used to design courses of fire that specifically did not allow that perfect fighting stance, forcing the shooter to take the shot from sometimes seriously awkward positions (I'm thinking of some of the weird "Rhodesian wall" shots)...was a great learning experience!

Michael B

PS: In the documentary on Col. Cooper, JEFF COOPER — A MAN IN FULL, there a sequence of me working the Fun House at GUNSITE, with all my longer shots from iso. The Colonel would no doubt just shake his head sadly...
 
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