Weak 8 round magazine spring.

dahermit said:
According to the source you sited, springs, being "high carbon steel", are BRITTLE metal, not DUCTILE metal.
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Where did YOU read that springs are HIGH carbon steel? If you read other sources, you'll find that high carbon steels are relatively brittle and break rather than bend. Springs are generally made using alloys and stainless steel (which is an alloy) -- which is often used in gun springs -- while it can have a relatively high carbon content, is also an alloy with surprising characteristics that offset the brittleness seen in most high-carbon steels. The source I cited said the following information, and I've underlined the important parts:

Some metals (such as stainless steel and many other alloys) yield under stress. It allows them to bend, or deform, without breaking. Other metals, such as cast iron, fracture and break quickly under stress. Even stainless steel, however, finally weakens and breaks under enough stress.

Metals such as low carbon steel bend rather than breaking under stress. At a certain level of stress, however, they reach a well-understood "yield point." Once they reach the yield point, the metal becomes "strain hardened." It means that more stress is required to deform the metal any further. The metal becomes less ductile, or bendable. In one sense, this makes the metal harder. But while strain hardening makes it harder for the metal to deform, it also makes the metal more brittle. Brittle metal can break, or fail, quite easily.​

That same article, when addressing BRITTLE STEELS, says:

Some metals are intrinsically brittle, which means they are particularly liable to fracture. Brittle metals include medium and high carbon steels. Unlike ductile materials, these metals do not have a well-defined yield point. Instead, when they reach a certain stress level, they break.​

Wikipedia says the following with regard to spring steel:

These steels are generally low-alloy manganese, medium-carbon steel or high-carbon steel with a very high yield strength. This allows objects made of spring steel to return to their original shape despite significant deflection or twisting.​

Coil spring do a lot of bending and twisting, so while some springs might have a relatively high carbon steel content, stainless steel is an alloy mixed with other metals that offset the high carbon . Stainless steel is apparently used in gun springs because of its greater rust/corrosion resistance -- as a rusting spring loses it physical integrity more quickly than one that doesn't rust.

Stainless Steel seems to include a number of components, tweaked to address the specific needs of the task at hand:
  • Iron - Very strong, very corrosive. ...
  • Chromium - Highly non-corrosive. ...
  • Nickel - Soft, some corrosion resistance. ...
  • Manganese - Binds steel alloys together, reducing brittleness and cracking.
  • Copper - Soft, conducts heat and electricity. ...
  • Carbon - Strong, corrosive.
Another interesting source addressing springs in guns can be found here:

http://www.whitesounddefense.com/pages/Gun-Spring-Materials.html

In general, the greatest danger to guns springs is corrosion. Springs are typically the thinnest metal in the firearm and as such they are extremely vulnerable to catastrophic failure from corrosion. This is why when design parameters allow for it, the best choice for firearm springs that are expected to function in the field is a stainless steel.

The US military has been using stainless magazine springs for quite a while because they get the job done and survive being in the field better than any other material. When possible we select high grade stainless for our weapon springs for the same reasons. We are designing parts to survive a field environment.​

If you have other sources, particularly ones that suggest a different interpretation, please share them with us.
 
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Where did YOU read that springs are HIGH carbon steel?
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I read it in the instructions for W-1 and O-1 drill rod (both high carbon)for a "spring temper" (it gives specific instructions on hardening and tempering to make springs). While in college studying metals, I mad a couple of flat springs using drill rod and the instructions for making springs that came with it. Also I am reading it in your reference: "Wikipedia says the following with regard to spring steel:
These steels are generally low-alloy manganese, medium-carbon steel or high-carbon steel..."

As for making springs out of Stainless Steels, that may be the practice now, but when John Browning invented his 1911 (and its spring-loaded magazine), it was still two years before the first stainless steel was invented (1913).

Alloy steels do date back somewhat earlier.
 
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dahermit said:
These steels are generally low-alloy manganese, medium-carbon steel or high-carbon steel with a very high yield strength.
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I noticed that you left off the LAST part of the sentence you quoted... Was that an accident? The part you didn't quote fully said: "These steels are generally low-alloy manganese, medium-carbon steel or high-carbon steel with a very high yield strength. " Not all high-carbon steels have a very high yield strength. The High-Carbon steels that don't have a high yield strength (the ability to be compressed or stretched but return to it's original form) can be brittle, shatter, or break easily. That is not a good trait for a magazine spring.

The same article goes on to say that spring steels have very predictable yield points -- and that is not the case for ALL high-carbon steels. Most coil springs apparently are made of alloys and the manganese is one of the metals used n the mix to allow more flexibility.

Bill DeShivs uses high-carbon steel in the springs he makes, but I wonder how many magazine springs he routinely makes? I know he makes springs for knives and some older guns, but he hasn't talked much about his experience with magazine springs.

Coil magazines springs, by design, both bend and twist, and the work done is spread more uniformly throughout the spring material than is the case with leaf springs.

Wikipedia also says:

High Carbon Steel. High carbon steels, as their name suggests, are steels with high carbon content. ... It also makes it less ductile and weldable than ordinary steel, and it becomes much more brittle as a result of its impurities.​

As best I can tell, most of the high-carbon steels used in gun spring applications are alloys, with other metals used to give them the flexibility/ductility needed to create a reliable and long-lived spring.
 
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No, I did not leave off "the rest" for any nefarious reason. I am just getting tired of this line of debate. The issue is, are some springs made from high carbon steel (plane or alloy), and the answer is yes, they are.

Bill DeShivs uses high-carbon steel in the springs he makes, but I wonder how many magazine springs he routinely makes? I know he makes springs for knives and some older guns, but he hasn't talked much about his experience with magazine springs.
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One can envision him making relatively large springs (larger than magazine springs) out of high carbon steel. However, in case you do not know, fine wire springs as in magazines are not shaped and forged with heat, but wound cold around a mandrel.

But, if you want the last word, go ahead and take it.;)
 
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cw308 said:
Using this magazine for practice only , I only load 5 in the magazine anyway so I was thinking if I dropped a block 1/2" high at the base of the mag wouldn't that tighten the spring to fire the fifth round 100% until new springs arrixe ?
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Huh? Don't you stock spare mags for your pistols? I cant imagine why anyone would want to jerry-rig a magazine.
 
To use it until the springs arrive , I have two mags , instead of ordering the springs when the first spring weakened , I'm the jerk that waited until the second went . Won't happen again.
 
||| Oto ||| said:
Huh? Don't you stock spare mags for your pistols? I cant imagine why anyone would want to jerry-rig a magazine.
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I wouldn't jury-rig a magazine spring either, but I don't keep a bunch of spare magazines springs on hand -- I keep spare magazines on hand. (And when a mag spring goes bad, that's when I order a couple more springs.)

Our poster, however,doesn't have extras mags or extra springs -- but he learned why that's a better option. :)
 
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