Weak 8 round magazine spring.

C

cw308

New member
Using this magazine for practice only , I only load 5 in the magazine anyway so I was thinking if I dropped a block 1/2" high at the base of the mag wouldn't that tighten the spring to fire the fifth round 100% until new springs arrixe ?
 
Which mag spring? 1911? FYI, its about $7-$8 for a single 1911 mag spring. No need to jerry rig a fix if the spring is that cheap.
 
Thanks guys for answering so fast springs are on order but just in a pinch by blocking up the mag bottom to increase tension for the 5th round not for a permanent fix. Will give it a try if new springs don't arrive in time. Thanks Again.

Chris
 
If it is a 1911 .45, I use Chip McCormick, and it takes a lot to weaken those springs. I have had one loaded for 5 years, and I don't think it has affected the spring.

And I think Mec-Gar is about the same. I would buy an extra mag myself.
 
Leaving them loaded doesn't wear them, using them does.
I left a Wilson 8-rounder loaded for 20 years, and it worked.

I wore-out a Shooting Star 8-rounder, two of them, in a year of weekly use.
 
BILLG said:
Just pull the spring out and stretch it and put it back in.Repeat as nessasary.
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As Bill DeShivs noted in a later response, coil springs weaken due to micro-fractures in the steel. They'll eventually break, although with the coil springs in magazines, the springs will generally quit working well-enough to be used BEFORE they degrade enough to break.

Stretching the spring, as suggested, just speeds up the micro-fracturing process. Metal doesn't heal or get stronger with rest, and stretching the spring just adds additional stress to the metal that is already weakening.

When you stretch a coil spring, you notice an improvement the first time you use it, than you'll see an even faster decline in the spring's functional abilities.​

Magazine springs can be replaced. You should see if sources like Wolff carry a spring for your magazine. (If they don't have one, you might be able to find an 8-round magazine that is dimensionally similar, and it's possible that spring -- which they might carry -- will work in your mag.

Anything else you do will work only temporarily -- and the springs will continue to degrade, and in some cases do it more rapidly.

.
 
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Leaving them loaded doesn't wear them, using them does.
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Leaving a magazine with a good spring does not wear them down. However, a well worn spring, or poor spring will be affected by keeping it compressed over time. I have had several magazines loose tension from being stored over a long time fully compressed with ammo. As I recall, in each case it involved a well used magazine or a cheap magazine.
 
Use for sure weakens mag. springs , carry mags will work forever it seems just remove the lint.
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It depends on the magazine design. Some carry mags (17-19 rounders) may not last all that long, even if you do remove the lint.

Working (cycling) isn't the only thing that can weaken a coil spring. Hi-cap mag springs, depending on their design and how they're used, can also weaken from being left loaded for long periods.

Note: rotating carry mags doesn't prolong magazine spring life -- it just shifts the work to a different set of magazines. And if the unused mags are stored loaded, it possible that you've done NOTHING to delay wear. (It depends on the mag design and how the springs are used.)

While working a spring can cause wear, the only part of the work cycle that causes significant wear is when the spring is fully compressed the the spring is ALSO near its design limit (also called it's elastic limit). That isn't the case with many magazine designs. But it does happen with many hi-cap mags.​

That's why Wolff Springs (in the FAQ section of their site) generally recommends downloading high-cap mags a round or two for long-term storage. (They don't suggest that for the mags IN a carry gun.) The same kind of spring degradation can occur with recoil springs, if a slide is left locked back for extended periods.

When a coil spring is bent too far for too long (at or near it's "design limits", the metal can begin to fracture when held in that position, and continued use at that compression level will cause the damage to slowly cascade, as more and more metal slowly breaks (and the remaining metal must do the same work).

It's bending (compressing) the coil spring's metal that damages the metal, not bending and releasing it. (The releasing part is good and NOT work.) The farther the metal is bent the more likely it is to be damaged. Metal fatigue is one way of describing it, but that's an oversimplification.

When coil springs in guns fail they will generally degrade (SOFTEN) and quit working properly before they break; they're replaced before they can break. Coil springs in car suspensions, on the other hand, don't keep a car from being driven, so they might eventually continue to be used until they break (from fatigue);l then they're replaced.

On the other hand, if, when a mag is fully loaded, the spring isn't near or at its "design" limit, that spring may outlive the gun in which it's used. 7-round 1911 magazines are like that -- they seems to almost never wear out. And many standard (non high-cap) mag springs in full-size guns also tend to have long service lives.
 
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As Bill DeShivs noted in a later response, coil springs weaken due to micro-fractures in the steel.
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That interests me...but, I am skeptical of such pronouncements in that I have been drawn into false statements over the years. Do either of you guys have a link to where that is a scientific observation? I would sure appreciate it.
 
I have no link.
I can tell you that I have replaced thousands of springs with springs that I hand make. Most are leaf springs, some are coils.
 
dahermit said:
That interests me...but, I am skeptical of such pronouncements in that I have been drawn into false statements over the years. Do either of you guys have a link to where that is a scientific observation? I would sure appreciate it.
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When I was looking through some of the links I have stored, I've seen you participating in earlier versions of this discussion.

Here's a good place to start.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=557865&highlight=magazine+spring+life

There have been MANY such discussions on this forum, including input from aeronautical engineers, technicians who work with spring specifications, and metallurgists. One of the more interesting discussions starts in the link above, provided by one of the staffers here on TFL JohnKsa. John is also an engineer, and a long-time air gun (spring powered) enthusiast, as well as someone familiar with handguns. Another member who has provided great technical citations is Danez71, who worked with springs at different times on the job.

Do a search on "magazine springs", "spring life" for a number of discussions. Most of them have links to technical or scientific sites, but the older ones have "cold" links. Wikipedia is cited with good technical explanations of the concepts and terms being discussed.

Here are some of the definitions, and I may be able to find others:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elasticity_(physics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticity_(physics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscoelasticity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_(deformation)
 
My question is about micro-cracks causing magazine spring weakening...not about metallurgical definitions. I would have thought it would have been something more exotic, like some of the Martensitic space lattice reverting back to a Ferritic space lattice due to the physical working of the steel during cycling.
 
This is a topic that has been discussed by various folks, over the years.

Here's a link to a simple explanation of the various ways that metal responds to stress -- from shattering, to deforming, to bending; but the metal will inevitably break if the source of the stress is not removed. The last part of the linked article below is the appropriate part, but I'll post that section, below. Reading the whole article, which isn't a lot, is worth the effort. (Note: in the first paragraph cited below, their use of "yield point" is the same as "elastic limit."

Rather than call the part of the metal structure affected by stress a micro-fracture this article calls it a FAULT, but it's phenomenon. i.e., a change in how the material holds itself together at the molecular level. Keep in mind that springs are considered a DUCTILE metal.

https://www.thebalance.com/metal-strain-explained-2340022 From the link:

Metal Fatigue Resulting from Metal Strain

When ductile metals are stressed, they deform. If the stress is removed before the metal reaches its yield point, the metal returns to its former shape. While the metal appears to have returned to its original state, however, tiny faults have appeared at the molecular level.

Each time the metal deforms and then returns to its original shape, more molecular faults occur. After many deformations, there are so many molecular faults that the metal cracks. When this occurs, it is described as "metal fatigue." Metal fatigue is irreversible.

Metal fatigue is particularly problematic in situations where metal is stressed over and over again. For example, it was a major cause of aircraft failure before it was fully understood. To avoid metal fatigue, it is important to examine samples of metal under stress using a microscope regularly.​
 
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