...because if a person doesn't even try to be ready...then they are a sheep. Training is priceless for so many things, not just HD and shooting. I teach Martial Arts, I tell my students to train-drill-train-drill so that they will be able to overcome situations that I hope will never become a reality. The benefits go beyond being able to whack someone around, there are the physical conditioning/Health/Coordination/Self Confidence/Mental Alertness etc. that go along with it...far beyond the "Kung Fu Fighting" stuff. Just curious...did something just happen to you to make you feel this way?
we the sheep
- Thread starter czc3513
- Start date
OneInTheChamber
New member
Anyone on this forum is more aware than the general population. Anyone with a CHL is far more prepared than 99% of people. The general public is so unaware of there surroundings I swear a bomb could off and no one would notice.
i once saw a tv show where they two actors, male and female, stage a domestic dispute/roughing up fight. Out of about 60 people, two stopped and helped. One called the police (who were already cued up to what was going on).
Chase
i once saw a tv show where they two actors, male and female, stage a domestic dispute/roughing up fight. Out of about 60 people, two stopped and helped. One called the police (who were already cued up to what was going on).
Chase
Kitty Genovese
I think that this is a good example of the "Kitty Genovese Syndrome." As individuals within a group, most people don't get involved because they assume someone else will. If you find yourself in a life or death confrontation "on the street," don't count on any outside help.
Mike
I think that this is a good example of the "Kitty Genovese Syndrome." As individuals within a group, most people don't get involved because they assume someone else will. If you find yourself in a life or death confrontation "on the street," don't count on any outside help.
Mike
Garand Illusion
New member
Once I was driving through a bad section of town and saw a man punching a woman at a bus stop. It seemed apparent that it was a pimp and his employee, and he was considerably scarier and meaner looking than I was. Plus I was in a part of town where my skin color made me stand out. This was before either CCW or cell phones, so I found myself turning away and continuing on my drive.
I still feel bad about letting a woman get hit, irregardless of race or occupation, but what else could I do?
Very often when a violent situation breaks out either you are unprepared to intervene (i.e. two guys knifing another guy -- no point in getting involved unless you have a CCW -- best you can do is call the PD from a safe distance) or you don't know the situation (are the two guys knifing a druggie who attacked them? Are there 4 more members of the others guys gang about to appear and start shooting?).
When the victim is obvious, and obviously a person at risk, the results are often different.
Some years ago here in Denver a news station did a test where they used actors to have an old lady pretend to be knocked down by a purse thief and then yell for help "My social security check! Stop him!"
Every male in the area pretty much responded. They had to quit the testing because the actor doing the stealing was getting tackled before he could explain what was up. Made me feel good about the whole state!
When they did similar testing with a young victim, the results were different.
In a round about way, I guess I'm just agreeing that you can't really count on others to come to your aid when under attack. But then ... there aren't many situations where you would be able to come to a total stranger's aid either.
In a decent city like Denver, I think you can count on someone to call the police/help you out when you're on the ground bleeding. Does depend on what part of town you're in.
I still feel bad about letting a woman get hit, irregardless of race or occupation, but what else could I do?
Very often when a violent situation breaks out either you are unprepared to intervene (i.e. two guys knifing another guy -- no point in getting involved unless you have a CCW -- best you can do is call the PD from a safe distance) or you don't know the situation (are the two guys knifing a druggie who attacked them? Are there 4 more members of the others guys gang about to appear and start shooting?).
When the victim is obvious, and obviously a person at risk, the results are often different.
Some years ago here in Denver a news station did a test where they used actors to have an old lady pretend to be knocked down by a purse thief and then yell for help "My social security check! Stop him!"
Every male in the area pretty much responded. They had to quit the testing because the actor doing the stealing was getting tackled before he could explain what was up. Made me feel good about the whole state!
When they did similar testing with a young victim, the results were different.
In a round about way, I guess I'm just agreeing that you can't really count on others to come to your aid when under attack. But then ... there aren't many situations where you would be able to come to a total stranger's aid either.
In a decent city like Denver, I think you can count on someone to call the police/help you out when you're on the ground bleeding. Does depend on what part of town you're in.
No.
I was thinking about getting a packing permit and I realized that I am not really that serious about preserving my life. I do not eat healthy foods as often as I should and I do not exercise. And I do not brush my teeth after every meal.
But like "The gun is ALWAYS loaded" rule, the BG is ALWAYS ready. So even If you are ready when the SHTF (both mentally and physically which is highly unlikely unless you are in the safety of your home) your chances are still only 50 - 50 because the BG is ready.
Another point might be... If a BG wants to rob you and kill you, he would probably kill you before he robs you. I dont see how you would have a chance to survive. If the BG just wants to rob you... (lets assume that he is unarmed) Are you going to shoot him or are you going to give him your money? It seems like a smart thief would not carry a weapon in self defense. I dont think that would hold up in court. And if you use deadly force against him when he is unarmed, if he survives, he could sue you. Correct me if I am wrong.
*edited to add*
I dont think that you would even need a weapon to rob most sheep.
Garand Illusion
New member
czc -- that is one of the best thought out and most honest replies I've read. I've often thought like you and I agree with your logic.
Like you, I bought all my guns for sport and shooting. It wasn't until about 2 years ago, when I got my CCL (never really intending to use it) that I bought my first gun strictly intended for defense.
I often think like you, that having a firearm isn't going to truly protect my life in very many situations -- and I'm not interested in using a firearm to protect my property.
But, when I think over my several decades of life and what I've seen ...
There was that time a few polite comments to a white trash drunkard in the woods turned him into a red faced, shrieking fiend waving his arms and preparing to charge and "kick my ass". I could barely understand a word he was saying, but he kept patting at the large lockback knife on his belt. If he pulled that and charged, I would have been defenseless; and he was NOT showing any common sense whatsoever.
There are those mass shootings that occasionally happen. I realize the chances of being at one of those are like 1 in 1 billion. But turn the odds around ... suppose just 5% of all adults in the US carrying and trained with a concealed weapon. When some nut starts doing a mass shooting, what are the odds someone will be there to stop him? By carrying a firearm as a law abiding adult, I'm part of the solution. I'll almost certainly never see such a thing, but if everyone says that then no one will be there to resist when they happen.
Another time I was walking down the mall in Boulder, co (normally an awesome place to be) when I saw a mean looking bum pushing around some elementary school kids who had bumped him and made him spill the drink he had. He was demanding money for payback. I forced him to leave the kids alone, took some abuse myself, but eventually he walked away. He wasn't threatening to me himself (I was younger than and bigger than him), but what if he had produced a weapon?
I saw a helpless reginald denny (name?) get dragged out of his truck and beaten nearly to death by some crazed kids in the LA riots. It was during a riot, but those kids had no backup but each other. If he'd had a gun, could he have defended himself long enough to drive away? Admittedly hard to say on that one, and hard to say if he would have recognized the level of threat in time to take action.
I totally agree that in a large percentage of violence that the normal citizen is involved in, a gun will play no part. Keeping an eye on surroundings and being alert is much more important. But there ARE situations where it could come in to play and save your life. We've seen plenty of those scenarios here.
I just figure since carrying is legal and easy, why not? I never carried before it was legal, but now I find myself doing it more and more. Still not 24/7, but most times that it makes sense ...
My .02. Thanks for your well thought out post.
Like you, I bought all my guns for sport and shooting. It wasn't until about 2 years ago, when I got my CCL (never really intending to use it) that I bought my first gun strictly intended for defense.
I often think like you, that having a firearm isn't going to truly protect my life in very many situations -- and I'm not interested in using a firearm to protect my property.
But, when I think over my several decades of life and what I've seen ...
There was that time a few polite comments to a white trash drunkard in the woods turned him into a red faced, shrieking fiend waving his arms and preparing to charge and "kick my ass". I could barely understand a word he was saying, but he kept patting at the large lockback knife on his belt. If he pulled that and charged, I would have been defenseless; and he was NOT showing any common sense whatsoever.
There are those mass shootings that occasionally happen. I realize the chances of being at one of those are like 1 in 1 billion. But turn the odds around ... suppose just 5% of all adults in the US carrying and trained with a concealed weapon. When some nut starts doing a mass shooting, what are the odds someone will be there to stop him? By carrying a firearm as a law abiding adult, I'm part of the solution. I'll almost certainly never see such a thing, but if everyone says that then no one will be there to resist when they happen.
Another time I was walking down the mall in Boulder, co (normally an awesome place to be) when I saw a mean looking bum pushing around some elementary school kids who had bumped him and made him spill the drink he had. He was demanding money for payback. I forced him to leave the kids alone, took some abuse myself, but eventually he walked away. He wasn't threatening to me himself (I was younger than and bigger than him), but what if he had produced a weapon?
I saw a helpless reginald denny (name?) get dragged out of his truck and beaten nearly to death by some crazed kids in the LA riots. It was during a riot, but those kids had no backup but each other. If he'd had a gun, could he have defended himself long enough to drive away? Admittedly hard to say on that one, and hard to say if he would have recognized the level of threat in time to take action.
I totally agree that in a large percentage of violence that the normal citizen is involved in, a gun will play no part. Keeping an eye on surroundings and being alert is much more important. But there ARE situations where it could come in to play and save your life. We've seen plenty of those scenarios here.
I just figure since carrying is legal and easy, why not? I never carried before it was legal, but now I find myself doing it more and more. Still not 24/7, but most times that it makes sense ...
My .02. Thanks for your well thought out post.
IndianaDean
New member
My martial arts class taught me in a mutliple situation to attack the closest person first, then grab onto them and keep them between you and the other attackers, while still keeping the first one incapacitated.
I'm at work right now, and guns are not allowed in the building. We can have them in the car. So mine is locked in a car safe. I do have a flashlight with me however, and a knife.
I'm at work right now, and guns are not allowed in the building. We can have them in the car. So mine is locked in a car safe. I do have a flashlight with me however, and a knife.
#18indycolts
Moderator
being a paramedic here in indy, i've been on numerous stabbings and shootings. Even though we don't respond till police arrive first and make sure the scene is safe, i still find myself looking in all directions before,during and after treating the patient. I still say we should be able to carry, even though some do.
GUNSMOKE45441
New member
Our Paramedic always carried, LE was 30min. away, He never had to use it, but It was reassuring to the responding EMTS.
This is one of the best threads i've seen on the forum.
This is one of the best threads i've seen on the forum.
Freezing...I watch the videos of the Tsunami and though some of those people were stupid for just standing there watching the wave come in...then about 4 months later I stood there motionless and slack-jawed as I watched a large section of drop ceiling collapse in a diner I was eating in. Nobody got hurt but it could have easily been a structural failure of the diner's roof and I would have still been standing there trying to process the event while I got crushed to death. Moral of the story is everyone here could freeze when thing change from regular and mundane to dramatic and life threatening in a heartbeat. Situational awareness is key, but sometime you will be caught with you pants down. Its not like the BG mugger is going to pick out the someone who is looking over his shoulder every second with his hand in his pocket holding a possible weapon as his next victim.
My $.02 is my life is not worth what I have in my wallet. Since I was born and raise in Philadelphia and spent a few years living in the NYC area, I pride myself with my situational awareness, however if I get caught in a mugging unaware and find myself in a no win situation, I would give up my money in a heartbeat. If it goes beyond that, I fight for my life, and that means gun, knife, and proven dirty fighting tactics. I haven't train in martial arts for several years now, and as I look back, I had a false sense of confidence on my ability. A mugger will most likely be stronger and better at a street fight then me, so I am sticking with a few proven strikes and moves (Pratice until it is muscle memory) that will put down someone down quickly. I'm in my mid 30's with kids, I'm too old and out of shape to fist fight a bunch of your young guys with weapons for more than a minutes or two.
At home, I have layered defenses. Locked doors and windows, security system, and a dog, will give me enough warning to prepare for an intruder. Same mindset there, I have a 2 story house with all the bedrooms on the second floor. Plan is, the wife calls 911 and I would get my weapon (and giving one to my wife) and after a quick sweep of the upstairs, I would defend the top of the stairs. If the BG stays downstair and is only looking to steal property, I would sit tight and let LE respond (maybe yelling to the BG to get the **** out of my house). The only reason a BG would go upstair is they intend to do something beyond stealing, and for that I fight for my life, but this time I'm ready.
My $.02 is my life is not worth what I have in my wallet. Since I was born and raise in Philadelphia and spent a few years living in the NYC area, I pride myself with my situational awareness, however if I get caught in a mugging unaware and find myself in a no win situation, I would give up my money in a heartbeat. If it goes beyond that, I fight for my life, and that means gun, knife, and proven dirty fighting tactics. I haven't train in martial arts for several years now, and as I look back, I had a false sense of confidence on my ability. A mugger will most likely be stronger and better at a street fight then me, so I am sticking with a few proven strikes and moves (Pratice until it is muscle memory) that will put down someone down quickly. I'm in my mid 30's with kids, I'm too old and out of shape to fist fight a bunch of your young guys with weapons for more than a minutes or two.
At home, I have layered defenses. Locked doors and windows, security system, and a dog, will give me enough warning to prepare for an intruder. Same mindset there, I have a 2 story house with all the bedrooms on the second floor. Plan is, the wife calls 911 and I would get my weapon (and giving one to my wife) and after a quick sweep of the upstairs, I would defend the top of the stairs. If the BG stays downstair and is only looking to steal property, I would sit tight and let LE respond (maybe yelling to the BG to get the **** out of my house). The only reason a BG would go upstair is they intend to do something beyond stealing, and for that I fight for my life, but this time I'm ready.
Possible intrusion is one of the reasons when company is not around I always have a few guns lying around when awake. When asleep they are are in the bedroom. We have no kids to worry about. I am safe and have taught my girlfriend how to use my guns just in case. Plus, I just found out there is a sex offender living in our building (next door). From what I saw on his report he seems harmless enough, but I have a 1911 hidden for my girlfriend just in case.
I am not a sheep! I just live among them! Free thinking individual right here, and damn proud of it!!!!
I follow my heart and mind, and those alone. Faith has no place in my rationale. Just the truth and facts.
I am not a sheep! I just live among them! Free thinking individual right here, and damn proud of it!!!!
I follow my heart and mind, and those alone. Faith has no place in my rationale. Just the truth and facts.IndianaDean
New member
I used to know a paramedic in Chicago who carried one of those huge steel Maglite flashlights in his ambulance for this very reason.
I am a Project manager for an HVAC company in PA. We do about 70% school work. There are times where I am in the worst parts of the city for most of the day but I can not carry because there is a chance that I may be at a school that day for ten minutes. I was unable to carry this entire summer because of this. Legally my Surefire E2D and my Emerson folder are considered weapons and have been told to remove them from the property of a school. Most of the schools we work at are not in bad areas but a few have been in the worst areas. I have come to the conclusion that I am pretty much screwed. My only tactic is to hope that nothing bad ever happens to me. I have seen fistfights, drug deals, drug busts, people driving slowly around you with tinted windows that stop and stare at you periodically, and some stoned guy threaten my workers. One time I worked in a school attached to a set of "projects" in the morning. Two hours after I left I heard on the radio that someone was just shot and killed within 50 feet of where I was at. I could go on and on. Just wanted to vent my dillema.
miconoakisland
New member
Lessons from dogs
My close-in support defense dog knows my habits before I do, and I only realize them when I recognize her movements. (Too many instances to get into here)--she knows me better than I know myself!
The point is, people pick up on different things and react accordingly. I tell her to "go potty" and if she ain't gotta go, she won't move. Nothing I could humanely do will get her to get up and go outside. I guess she's like me, if told she's "gotta" she won't, if told she "can't" she will. It has to make sense to do something, doing something just because someone tells you to makes no sense. Sheeple don't/can't understand this or just choose to ignore this.
Sheeple follow the other sheep. They are all fed the same slop, and when it comes time, they are all sheared, stripped of all they have, against their will and horrified at the experience, let loose (in a bigger fenced-in area), made to feel safe again, until the next shearing. After years of this it becomes no big deal. But there comes a time when they are led, not to a shearing, but to slaughter, and yet they do not recognize the difference until it is too late.
The shepherd dog is taken care of to look after these sheep. Fed, housed and basically left alone to do it's job. When the need arises for it protect the sheep in it's ward, it will fight and even sacrifice it's life for them The shepherd dog doesn't line up with the sheep to get sheared, nor does it eat the same slop they do.
To avoid becoming a "sheeple" stop feeding on the daily slop of "news", quit swallowing PC rhetoric, stop getting in line to "if it just saves one, it's worth it" movements. Sheeple are leading their way to their own "slaughter" through rhetoric. (look at Australia, Canada, Europe, etc.) Let them. Protect those you can, educate young ones in your care, pass on personal self preservation and personal responsibility, instill logic to those that are capable.
One day, sheeple will have had enough of what they have wrought and plead for protection from the "bad" protector. It is up to our generation to make sure there is a few to do what is right for future generations.
My close-in support defense dog knows my habits before I do, and I only realize them when I recognize her movements. (Too many instances to get into here)--she knows me better than I know myself!
The point is, people pick up on different things and react accordingly. I tell her to "go potty" and if she ain't gotta go, she won't move. Nothing I could humanely do will get her to get up and go outside. I guess she's like me, if told she's "gotta" she won't, if told she "can't" she will. It has to make sense to do something, doing something just because someone tells you to makes no sense. Sheeple don't/can't understand this or just choose to ignore this.
Sheeple follow the other sheep. They are all fed the same slop, and when it comes time, they are all sheared, stripped of all they have, against their will and horrified at the experience, let loose (in a bigger fenced-in area), made to feel safe again, until the next shearing. After years of this it becomes no big deal. But there comes a time when they are led, not to a shearing, but to slaughter, and yet they do not recognize the difference until it is too late.
The shepherd dog is taken care of to look after these sheep. Fed, housed and basically left alone to do it's job. When the need arises for it protect the sheep in it's ward, it will fight and even sacrifice it's life for them The shepherd dog doesn't line up with the sheep to get sheared, nor does it eat the same slop they do.
To avoid becoming a "sheeple" stop feeding on the daily slop of "news", quit swallowing PC rhetoric, stop getting in line to "if it just saves one, it's worth it" movements. Sheeple are leading their way to their own "slaughter" through rhetoric. (look at Australia, Canada, Europe, etc.) Let them. Protect those you can, educate young ones in your care, pass on personal self preservation and personal responsibility, instill logic to those that are capable.
One day, sheeple will have had enough of what they have wrought and plead for protection from the "bad" protector. It is up to our generation to make sure there is a few to do what is right for future generations.