"Waterproof" reloads?
- Thread starter McDowell300
- Start date
I find the whole idea of people getting "antsy" about dunking ammo to be funny. Spearfishermen have long used various normal ammo for bang sticks. I used to carry a 30-06 bang stick cartridge when I dove - thankfully never needed to use it. I've never heard of one failing to go off because it was wet. They do however, normally toss the unused cartridge overboard at the end of the day because salt water tends to do nasty things to most anything it touches.
JeepHammer
Moderator
My bang stick is .44 Mag. I sealed common ammo with what ever clear spray can sealer was on sale.
Kept the salt from eating up the case and I assume kept water out since the rounds I kept in my dry box and dove with went off when hammered.
I didn't leave it loaded when I wasn't in the water, ammo washed, dried and put back in the dry box.
The clear Krylon clear coat/sealer worked pretty well, I never had serious corrosion.
I did however, watch a guy pour water out of a 12ga round, which is why I went with a .44 Mag.
Fewer ways for water pressure to force it's way in.
Asked why I needed a 'Gun' underwater, I said pepper spray doesn't work on sharks, they don't have taste buds or sinuses...
The dumb anti-gunner dude actually bought it! I heard him repeat it to his boyfriend!
Kept the salt from eating up the case and I assume kept water out since the rounds I kept in my dry box and dove with went off when hammered.
I didn't leave it loaded when I wasn't in the water, ammo washed, dried and put back in the dry box.
The clear Krylon clear coat/sealer worked pretty well, I never had serious corrosion.
I did however, watch a guy pour water out of a 12ga round, which is why I went with a .44 Mag.
Fewer ways for water pressure to force it's way in.
Asked why I needed a 'Gun' underwater, I said pepper spray doesn't work on sharks, they don't have taste buds or sinuses...
The dumb anti-gunner dude actually bought it! I heard him repeat it to his boyfriend!
I have loaded ammo that was waterproof, I tested the loaded rounds for leaks by placing them in a gallon jug that was 3/4 full of clear water. After closing the lid I placed a vacuum on the jug and watched for bubbles escaping the loaded ammo.
I have pulled down thousands of loaded rounds of ammo; in the process I found rounds that did not seal when loaded.
I am the fan of bullet hold, I want all the bullet hold I can get. A tight neck assures a tight seal, I have no ideal what tension does for sealing, again, I can not measure neck tension in pounds.
F. Guffey
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math teacher
New member
Years ago Herters sold their "Improved Military Bullet Sealer" which looked and smelled like red fingernail polish. Since then I have used regular cheap undiluted nail polish and it works equally well, but then it may not have been needed in the first place. I stopped using it altogether without any problems and I live in a very wet climate.
Marco Califo
New member
Shotgun shells: I loaded hot dove loads and some steel shot in 12 g hulls and dripped melted wax on the crimped end, waited, one second, and covered with my thumb and spun. All of those went off. I was hunting on waterfowl wetlands, and I do know some got wet. But I did not try storing under water.
Once I left a 50 Cal ammo can, with a good gasket, full of factory steel shot loads, in the exposed bed of a pickup truck, one season to the next, or maybe two. I thought the sealed ammo can, under something, but rained on, would have kept them good. But the reddish orange rust powder covered everything inside the can. The rust was from the steel shot. Next stop was the range round file, of once-live ammunition.
Once I left a 50 Cal ammo can, with a good gasket, full of factory steel shot loads, in the exposed bed of a pickup truck, one season to the next, or maybe two. I thought the sealed ammo can, under something, but rained on, would have kept them good. But the reddish orange rust powder covered everything inside the can. The rust was from the steel shot. Next stop was the range round file, of once-live ammunition.
Don Fischer
New member
Year's ago Herter's used to sell what they called primer sealant, I got a jar one time and couldn't figure out why. I think if your loading case's with loose primer pocket's it might be a good idea but I also found fingernail polish does the same thing. But I don'e fool with that anymore. I don't hunt water foul and I don't hunt in the rain. I have to say I do wax the crimp on my shot shells though. Same as the guy above. Works really well I think though I've never got one wet!
Hunting in the rain: Leaky ammo; I pull ammo apart meaning I pull the bullets and dump the powder etc.. Again, I pull down 450+ of belted ammo, 85% would have fired and 'not a problem,' I did not load the rounds. The 85% that would fire were sealed cases, The 15% that had corrosion around and between the bullet and neck were cases that did not seal.
If I was going to recreate a Nevada Smith scene in The Atchafalaya Basin I would first test the ammo for leaks. I have 4 pressurized paint pots, I understand; no one understands but if I place my loaded ammo in the pressure pots with a vacuum for test the ammo will get heavier if the rounds takes on water.
Going the other way? Same thing; if I apply a pressure on the ammo in the post with water the high pressure will force water into the case if there is a leak.
F. Guffey
I know: "How does he do that?". I weight the ammo before testing and again after testing.
Placing a vacuum on the ammo creates a vacuum inside the case if the case is leaking, dropping the vacuum on the pot allows the vacuum to pull water into the case through the leak.
I am the fan of finding the leak before I jump in, think about it; you pull the trigger and there is no bang. When that happens you have to start loading your ammo without powder/primers and mixing the duds with functional ammo, primers etc. You want to avoid 'the flinch' when the ammo does not go bang.
F. Guffey
Placing a vacuum on the ammo creates a vacuum inside the case if the case is leaking, dropping the vacuum on the pot allows the vacuum to pull water into the case through the leak.
I am the fan of finding the leak before I jump in, think about it; you pull the trigger and there is no bang. When that happens you have to start loading your ammo without powder/primers and mixing the duds with functional ammo, primers etc. You want to avoid 'the flinch' when the ammo does not go bang.
F. Guffey
Not sure why the OP is worried. Back when I hunted I have spent many a wet day in the woods. Ask any soldier who was in Vietnam about monsoon season. Anyone ever washed a few pistol bullets in your pants ? We are not talking about placing bullets in a vacuum then dropping them in a 100 foot deep tank of water for a week. Maybe a wet pocket or getting dropped in a puddle for a second or two at worst at atmospheric pressure.
I think some of yall just love to over complicate but if it is a real concern I can think of 100 ways to do it anything from candle wax to fingernail polish. A thinned layer of any petroleum or alcohol based paint at the junction of the bullet and case mouth and around the the primer / primer cup seam will do it. Anything from fingernail polish to poly urethane.
I think some of yall just love to over complicate but if it is a real concern I can think of 100 ways to do it anything from candle wax to fingernail polish. A thinned layer of any petroleum or alcohol based paint at the junction of the bullet and case mouth and around the the primer / primer cup seam will do it. Anything from fingernail polish to poly urethane.
I'd just vacuum seal four or five cartridges in one of the 4-mil vacuum sealing bags. Make up as many bags as you may need. Cut a bag open and load rifle on the day of the hunt. Those bags are water proof and should keep your ammo dry almost forever as long as the seal is not broken.
That's the safest way I can think of.
If you want to really test the water resistance in your ammo just drop a warm round in a cold water (or a creek), the cold water will shrink the air inside the case and cause a mild vacuum inside the case. It sucks the water in from the vacuum. In shallow water it is not a pressure thing.
Copper conducts heat or loss of it very quickly.
If cases and water both were the same temp it would be a lot easier to keep them dry and water probably wouldn't enter, but in real life when does that happen. It's usually warm ammo from your pocket or truck in a cold crick or freezing cold rain that causes the trouble for hunters.
why not just drop a few rounds into a ziplock freezer bag ? However if you are planning on swimming across rivers then I would go with something heavy duty
https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/...f-YEgrDaR2PjYNBuhpCMcpUlBm0lrYKhoCxzIQAvD_BwE
Also condoms work for sealing muzzles, at least they do in the movies. Can't say I ever seen anyone walking around in real life with one on their gun
https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/...f-YEgrDaR2PjYNBuhpCMcpUlBm0lrYKhoCxzIQAvD_BwE
Also condoms work for sealing muzzles, at least they do in the movies. Can't say I ever seen anyone walking around in real life with one on their gun
Mkl,
The vacuum seal trick, to be safe, has to be applied just before the hunt. If you leave the rounds vacuum sealed for any length of time, the moisture in the powder can gradually work its way out of the powder and into the bag as water vapor. Norma's manual shows that taking too much water out of powder can increase its burn rate to raise pressure as much as about 12%. Still below proof, so it shouldn't damage the gun other than maybe causing some primers to pierce, but you don't want to go on the hunt only to find out the hard way that POI has shifted or you accuracy sweet spot is no longer there.
The Norma manual's description of loaded cartridges having their powder equilibrate with the outside relative humidity over a period of about a year is what convinced me that using a desiccant for storing loaded rounds was a bad thing. 50% RH environment is about right for them for long life at the intended performance level.
The vacuum seal trick, to be safe, has to be applied just before the hunt. If you leave the rounds vacuum sealed for any length of time, the moisture in the powder can gradually work its way out of the powder and into the bag as water vapor. Norma's manual shows that taking too much water out of powder can increase its burn rate to raise pressure as much as about 12%. Still below proof, so it shouldn't damage the gun other than maybe causing some primers to pierce, but you don't want to go on the hunt only to find out the hard way that POI has shifted or you accuracy sweet spot is no longer there.
The Norma manual's description of loaded cartridges having their powder equilibrate with the outside relative humidity over a period of about a year is what convinced me that using a desiccant for storing loaded rounds was a bad thing. 50% RH environment is about right for them for long life at the intended performance level.
Interesting concept Uncle Nick. I had no idea of how much of a vacume those things pulled but found out some of the higher end ones can get down to about 28 inches. That would put the boiling point of water at about body temp.
Another consideration would be once the vacuum was released air will find it's way back into the case and if it's a rainy day....
Better a baggie and maybe some lip balm smeared around the case mouth and flashhole
Another consideration would be once the vacuum was released air will find it's way back into the case and if it's a rainy day....
Better a baggie and maybe some lip balm smeared around the case mouth and flashhole
Body temperature?
There is a chart that claims 28" of vacuum will boil water at or near 27 degrees below '0'.And then there is a silly argument about absolute 'ZERO' and boiling water at a temperature of zero. The point: It is not possible to pull a 30 " vacuum with the recovery systems and vacuum pumps I have.
When I want a dry system I use nitrogen.
F. Guffey
whatever chart you saw was either wrong or you did nor read it correctly.
27.75 inches of vacuum = 104 F flash point
https://www.engineersedge.com/h2o_boil_pressure.htm
and I seriously doubt any vacuum sealer you buy at walmart can get anywhere close to that. For refrigeration systems a vacuum of 500 to 1000 microns is the norm before charging. Dry nitrogen for storing your ammo ? Talk about overkill
you prepping for a nuclear war or is there some kind of contest for seeing who can be the most anal. A 2 cent ziplock bag will accomplish the same purpose for a elk hunt
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I don't think anything is truly waterproof. Even water proof boots get soaked eventually.
We used some rather large vacuum pumps for dehydrating high voltage electrical equipment. We could pull down to 3 microns with a properly sealed compartment and evacuate moisture mostly by circulating hot dielectric mineral oil at 180-220 degrees F.
The results were usually a -30 to -45 degree dewpoint. Even at that, given time, the dewpoint would gradually rise.
A young friend wanted to go hunting maybe three years ago and needed to borrow a rifle and some ammunition. He is young enough to be a son (and I consider him as such as he has not been in contact with his dad for prolly 35 years).
I drug out a very capable rifle out of the safe and found some ammunition that I had loaded back in 1976. The ammo was almost 40 years old and it was all I had at the time. He ask if the rifle needed to be sighted and I told him that it was dead on the last time I shot it.
He killed 2 deer and a turkey to feed him and his Mom for a few months.
I asked him about the rifle and he stated it was dead on. The ammo was stored indoors all that time and had no need to be "waterproofed".
I loaded two boxes of fresh ammo for him shortly after he left on his hunting trip. He used it the next year.
We used some rather large vacuum pumps for dehydrating high voltage electrical equipment. We could pull down to 3 microns with a properly sealed compartment and evacuate moisture mostly by circulating hot dielectric mineral oil at 180-220 degrees F.
The results were usually a -30 to -45 degree dewpoint. Even at that, given time, the dewpoint would gradually rise.
A young friend wanted to go hunting maybe three years ago and needed to borrow a rifle and some ammunition. He is young enough to be a son (and I consider him as such as he has not been in contact with his dad for prolly 35 years).
I drug out a very capable rifle out of the safe and found some ammunition that I had loaded back in 1976. The ammo was almost 40 years old and it was all I had at the time. He ask if the rifle needed to be sighted and I told him that it was dead on the last time I shot it.
He killed 2 deer and a turkey to feed him and his Mom for a few months.
I asked him about the rifle and he stated it was dead on. The ammo was stored indoors all that time and had no need to be "waterproofed".
I loaded two boxes of fresh ammo for him shortly after he left on his hunting trip. He used it the next year.
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bump...not sure what makes these more waterproof than the ones you get in a supermarket but
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...ra-waterproof-ammo-bags-25-pack-new?a=2151572
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...ra-waterproof-ammo-bags-25-pack-new?a=2151572