Watching the debate now Bush on Gun Control

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Madison46: Well, I hope you're right about Bush; I've never personally encountered a politician who was actually more pro-gun in practice than on the stump, but maybe Bush will be a first.


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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
I was initially disheartened when I heard Bush support required background checks at gunshows. After some thought, though, it makes sense politically. To the majority of the public, there is a gunshow loophole. They see a big difference between two friends exchanging a gun over the kitchen table and two strangers exchanging a gun over a table at a flea market (which a gunshow is). I suspect that we're all going to have to get used to background checks at gunshows because we are unlikely to convince the majority of the people, who don't own guns, any time soon that there this is really an attack on our right to privacy.

At least with a pro-gun President in the Whitehouse, and a proper FBI chief in place, instant background checks can go back to being what they were intended instead of a means for backdoor gun registration.

If we can hang onto Republican control of Congress after Nov 7, then we have a real chance to roll back much of the onerous gun control of the last 30 years. Look at the Firearms Owner Protection Act of 1986. The FOPA rolled back a lot of crap foisted on us by the Gun Control Act of 1968 and it happened in a Democratic controlled Congress. Yes, the FOPA outlawed the manufacture of full auto weapons for civilian sale but that was a compromise given in order to get the gains we received. Imagine what could happen with a pro-gun Congress and a pro-gun President.

I think we have a lot of reasons to be optimistic coming into the election.
 
Everything Gore said he wants to do to control the purchase of handguns is already in effect.

Like the photo ID to purchase. In my state of Minnesota it would be impossible to buy a handgun without showing a drivers license.

If he meant it in a way that you have to have a permit to purchase a handgun then that is already in effect also. You have to go to the local police department and show a drivers license and then fill out the paperwork. after 7 days they will send you a card. This card allows you to purchase.

He also mentioned that he wants the Brady Bill inforced of reinacted so there is a 3 day waiting period. I thought it was a 5 day waiting period.

So Gore is saying nothing new. Why hasen't this worked under the current administration? Answer....they don't enforce the current laws!!!!!
 
Gore is telling the whoppers again. He IS for licensure and registration. Gore was on Larry King and basically said that there is no reason anyone should own a 9 mm handgun. He is LYING AGAIN. IMHO, Bush has to appear moderate on this issue, as he gets raked over the coals for supporting concealed carry in Texas by the media. He tried to appear more moderate during the debate to lure the soccer moms and undecided. I'm sure Gore would have liked to paint him as the poster boy for the NRA if he had had a chance. I think Bush handled the issue carefully and tactfully, given the current political climate and misinformation about guns that exists today.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nralife:
Mike Irwin,

It would have been very difficult for Bush to go after the enforcement thing after the ABC NRA special the other night, where the NRA's figures on prosecutions came into serious question. Gore was probably just waiting for Bush to try to score on the enforcement question, so he could bash Bush and the NRA.


Joe

[/quote]

Sorry, Joe, but I don't buy that. Yes, the numbers that NRA has been using are somewhat suspect, but even if you take a look at the numbers the government claims, they are HORRENDOUSLY low for a President and Administration that promised to vigorously prosecute anyone found trying to evade the Brady Law.

The end effect is that Bush can still make the very valid point that prosecutions are in the TOILET under Clinton.

ABCnews.com had an article that stated, to the effect, that "prosecuting someone for a Brady law violation is difficult, as you have to prove intent."

In some cases yes, you do have to prove intent. But in many other cases, Brady has caught people who have serious criminal records who have tried to purchase firearms.

As much as I hate the Brady Law and its provisions, it was passed with promises of vigorous enforcement. BS. UTTER BS.

I was happy to see that Bush did mention Project Exile. Again, however, Bush missed an opportunity to slam the "Tough on Crime Clintonian Image" as the Clinton Administration has pretty much refused to provide funds to expand Exile, and in fact tried to seriously cripple the Exile program in Virginia several years ago.



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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
WestTexas,

I have to agree with Gore on one point:

".. Gore was on Larry King and basically said that there is no reason anyone should own a 9 mm handgun.."

There is no reason for having a 9mm when there are perfectly good .45's available. ;)

Chris.
 
-Bush didn't sound that much different than Gore on Gun Control. They're both for ending private transactions at gun shows (and therefore everywhere), they're both against "assault weapons" (whatever that means), and they both think that standard capacity magazines are bad somehow.-
WOW did Bluesman say that Im impressed.
I think its laughable how no one here will point out why Bush and especially why so many of our "pro-gun" congressmen will support these measures.
Would someone please show me where the NRA
has opposed ending the transfer of private property at gunshows OR where they have stated they will oppose the resiging the 'AW' ban which will I beleive will continue the outlawing of
standard capacity pistol magazines for further production.
Immmmmm waiting???
GOA calls these self defense magazines and continually defends the use and ownership of all high capcity rifles.
If you want change or opposition to yet more
so called 'gun safety' measures you have to support a group that also does.Im still waiting for someone to show me where the NRA does this when they do theyll get my money again.
BTR--as several have in other words stated
a photo licensing is registration what you think is going to be on that license,name address and that your gunowner and if this would be a license for each gun you buy then it would have the exact type of gun on the license.
Sounds like registration to me.
PROMXIMO-- would you show us where Bush has even proposed (whispered) any changes to the
NICS system.As soon as he does their will be cries a plenty 'he wants to let criminals to be able to buy guns the nics has stopped thousands'.
Your gonna convince me that that many people going through the NICS system were actual felons as soon as you convince me that straw
Bloods and crypts go to gunshow to arm their gangs through the so called 'gun show loophole'.
Its far more likely that half these people
turned away by the NICS were honest record free citizens who were simply randomly chosen to be one of the 'criminals' that Comrade Clintos system turned away.
A friend of mine who is a dealer has watched this same system deny uniformed police officers and one of the BATF agents who visits him monthly.
All these measures make me sick thats why I
send my money to an org that openly states all these measures are infringements not a way to reduce crime by enforcing thema and keeping them around.
I was having a debate with my wife at the time and the one part I heard about guns
was the commentaters saying they both said they didnt want to take guns from anyone.
This is where Bush should have said
-but your website sais you want to ban affordalbe handguns because only criminals
use them ,would this not take guns from the low and middle class who want to protect themselves.-
Im happy for the review knew TFL would come through for me.

In the defesne of liberty their are no extremes.
In the deletion of freedom their are no crimes only salvation by the criminalization of the openminded-so say the ruler.


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"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
 
Mike,

I hear ya... but I still think that Bush did the right thing. If I remember correctly, and I do have a copy of the ABC NRA special on tape that I can check, the "600" figure for prosecutions was just for the state of Minnesota where Stupak's district is. If Gore would have pulled out some big figure that covered all 50 states, he could have really damaged Bush's and the NRA's credibility right when they need it most.

Even with the dispute over figures, we all know that the NRA is right, that federal gun prosecutions are way down under Clinton/Gore. But perception is reality and what the sheeple (with their 30 second attention spans) believe is "true" in their minds is reality whether it is true or not. :)


Joe

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NRA Joe's Second Amendment Discussion Forum

http://Second.Amendment.Homepage.com
 
from Al Gores' campaign site http://www.algore.com/guns/gun_agenda1.html
"Limit handgun purchases to one-a-month and require a three-day waiting period for handgun purchases."

I don't see how you can do that without registering the purchase of guns... of course he'll probably just invent something to take care of it.

ALSO http://www.algore.com/guns/gun_agenda2.html

"Improve Efforts to Trace Gun Ownership: Al Gore will require gun manufacturers and federally-licensed sellers to report gun sales to a state authority. He will also support the development of "supertracing" technology. These measures would greatly assist law enforcement in tracing ownership of guns if they are used in a crime"

Sounds like registration to me.
 
The big difference between the two is that Gore will ACTIVELY seek and PUSH gun control legislation. :mad: Bush won't. :)
 
And very importantly.
Bush is far unlikely to ban guns or do much else by executive order.
That really killed me on the VP debate on racial profiling when Liebermann said they would issue an executive order banning it.

I thought executive orders were only meant to be used during times of emergecy when congress could not meet??
Sounds like the making of another dictatership to me.
Been wrong before though.

Its also always funny to hear the numbers of people looking to see for their vote who will spend the most of their tax dollars on programs that have repeatedly become invisible when it came time for show and tell or for them to use.
 
ruger45,
You just pointed out why I abosolutly hate Clinton/Gore. Should they leave us suddenly, I would not shed a tear nor lower my flag. JMHO

Just a note: Clinton is thinking of EO'ing new rules for HMO's since he can't get congress to pass HIS plan.

This will be the greatest danger to our country that I can see right now. I was steamed at Lieberman's answer just like you were.

Clinton also fired ALL US Atty's when he came to office. The FIRST time that had ever been done in history. He replaced them with his people.

(Is this starting to sound like Palace politics....??)

Support H 2655. It gives congress the right to fight EO's in court.

madison

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ruger45:
And very importantly.
Bush is far unlikely to ban guns or do much else by executive order.
That really killed me on the VP debate on racial profiling when Liebermann said they would issue an executive order banning it.

I thought executive orders were only meant to be used during times of emergecy when congress could not meet??
Sounds like the making of another dictatership to me.
Been wrong before though.

Its also always funny to hear the numbers of people looking to see for their vote who will spend the most of their tax dollars on programs that have repeatedly become invisible when it came time for show and tell or for them to use.[/quote]
 
Let's take a look at the "photo ID" for a second. Most of us if not all of us have to show a photo ID, a driver's license, whenever we purchase a firearm. In CA the FFL may even photocopy it and attach it to your paperwork. Even though one is "instant checked" (and it is done in seconds through DOJ), there is a 10 calendar day wait anyway.

My point is that "photo ID" firearms purchasing permission is code for what it will take to GET ONE! It sounds so innocuous. However, what will the criteria be which must be met before one may possess it. Here is where the antis go with incrementalism.

First it's simple; just apply, pay a small fee, get your card and away you go. Then comes the screw job: cards good for 5 years before renewal, in a few years, must be renewed biannually, then annually; and, oh yeah, the fee has jumped from $5 or $10 to $50, then $100 or $250. The aim is to winnow the ownership ranks to make their population less, diminish their clout, and (as one TFLer has already remarked) make them more "manageable." Example: the number of FFL holders in the U.S. now compared to 5 or 10 years ago. Fee structure ($750 a year now, I believe) and zoning have decimated the number of license holders.

It is a ruse, a canard, and it must be fought rigorously.

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Safe shooting - PKAY
 
I was especially pleased when GW mentioned the fact that the human life has been de-valued. I think this is the point anyway. Guns, knives, pipes, chains---- a weapon is a weapon, and what we need to find out is why some folks in the country believe they need to cause harm to another.
I hate violence, especially violence against kids, and I would like to know where the hate comes from that causes these people to kill.

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"Any world that I'm welcome to.....Is better than the one I come from"
 
A couple of thoughts. Bush gets my vote, first of all. Too many reasons I've already rehashed enough times.

Gore is a lying sack of Democrat. When Clinton specifically came up with a bill that specifically, in so many words, called for the registration of every handgun in America, Gore said it was a great idea. Now he'll try to pretend that HE was never really all that hot about it--because now he knows it's quickly becoming a third-rail issue again. Idiot. He's not fooling anybody at my house.

The thing that really, really ticked me off was the "undecided voters" group on NBC. Did anybody else see this? The moron who said "Well, I believe I've decided. I had always thought that Gore was for big government, but he said tonight that he's not. I was glad to hear that; he gets my vote." The best they could find was a complete idiot who believes AL GORE'S word when it contradicts his record and his published intentions?
 
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